ollie989898
Member
Yes, 20 or 30 thousand per year at most.
Immigration Good For The Country?
- Thread starter bluebell
- Start date
Yes, 20 or 30 thousand per year at most.
Farfrae
Member
- Location
- Pontargothi, Carmarthenshire
As one of those 'lefties' most of you probably love to hate I must say there is a fair bit of drivel here. What exactly is 'our country' to start with and who are the 'we'? In any event it is nothing other than a bit of insignificant land on an an insignificant planet in a unimagineable universe where insignificant beings fight and scrap over resources.
The UK has done more than it's fair share of raping and pilaging other countries, imposing itself on them through force and destroying cultures to seize their resources. Our imperialistic past is truly shameful. Having told the populations of those countries that we plundered that they were now British you can hardly blame them for them coming to 'their' country.
Then when the labour of those people could be useful to us we have happily allowed them here to toil to create the growth that fuels our comfortable lives, stock markets and pension pots. Chinese immigration to the United Kingdom began during the early 19th century but you don't hear much about that because they are considered hard working and keep themselves to themselves. Subsequent waves of immigration from the colonies we pilaged came and grafted and we respond by telling them to 'prove they worked here' (Windrush). In more recent times the east europeans came to the UK and I've seen many posts extolling the work ethic of Polish builders and workers. They certainly on average contribute more to the economy than they take out.
Of course the whole demonisation of immigrants is to find scapegoats to blame to divert attention away from the wealthy elite in a world where the globe's richest 1% own half the world's wealth. As this elite controls the media and politicians they don't want you looking at how they accrued it, their tax havens, their tax avoidence and the money they generate via the military industrial complex. Constant war is far more profitable than peace. Let's bomb their countries for our own political ends, make loads of money, look suprised when refugees want food and shelter and blame it on immigrants via the Daily Wail. Immigration has become a convenient framework that politicians use to explain away ever growing social and economic insecurities.
Personally I live in a global village, people from anywhere in the world are just the same as me and I think that the benefits of immigration to the UK far outweigh any issues. I've travelleed widely in India, Pakistan, Iran, Syria, Jordan, Bangladesh and Africa etc. and I've not yet met anyone who doesn't want the same basic thing, to provide for their family, educate their children, have food in their belly and healthcare when they need it.
I was absolutely delighted the weekend before last when my son married into an Indian family from Leicester. A family who in one generation have gone from arriving with nothing to both children becoming doctors. This nonsense about 'our country' is just that; nonsense. We are all humans who share limited resources and we should be working together to provide a decent world for everyone not just the few (mostly in the west) who accumalate most of the wealth then blame the social consequences on immigrants.
The media (check out who controls it) is playing you and wants you blame immigrants. Nothing has changed since the days of Robert Tressll
“The theories that drunkenness, laziness or inefficiency are the causes of poverty are so many devices invented and fostered by those who are selfishly interested in maintaining the present states of affairs, for the purpose of preventing us from discovering the real causes of our present condition.”
― Robert Tressell. The Ragged Trousered Philanthropist.
The UK has done more than it's fair share of raping and pilaging other countries, imposing itself on them through force and destroying cultures to seize their resources. Our imperialistic past is truly shameful. Having told the populations of those countries that we plundered that they were now British you can hardly blame them for them coming to 'their' country.
Then when the labour of those people could be useful to us we have happily allowed them here to toil to create the growth that fuels our comfortable lives, stock markets and pension pots. Chinese immigration to the United Kingdom began during the early 19th century but you don't hear much about that because they are considered hard working and keep themselves to themselves. Subsequent waves of immigration from the colonies we pilaged came and grafted and we respond by telling them to 'prove they worked here' (Windrush). In more recent times the east europeans came to the UK and I've seen many posts extolling the work ethic of Polish builders and workers. They certainly on average contribute more to the economy than they take out.
Of course the whole demonisation of immigrants is to find scapegoats to blame to divert attention away from the wealthy elite in a world where the globe's richest 1% own half the world's wealth. As this elite controls the media and politicians they don't want you looking at how they accrued it, their tax havens, their tax avoidence and the money they generate via the military industrial complex. Constant war is far more profitable than peace. Let's bomb their countries for our own political ends, make loads of money, look suprised when refugees want food and shelter and blame it on immigrants via the Daily Wail. Immigration has become a convenient framework that politicians use to explain away ever growing social and economic insecurities.
Personally I live in a global village, people from anywhere in the world are just the same as me and I think that the benefits of immigration to the UK far outweigh any issues. I've travelleed widely in India, Pakistan, Iran, Syria, Jordan, Bangladesh and Africa etc. and I've not yet met anyone who doesn't want the same basic thing, to provide for their family, educate their children, have food in their belly and healthcare when they need it.
I was absolutely delighted the weekend before last when my son married into an Indian family from Leicester. A family who in one generation have gone from arriving with nothing to both children becoming doctors. This nonsense about 'our country' is just that; nonsense. We are all humans who share limited resources and we should be working together to provide a decent world for everyone not just the few (mostly in the west) who accumalate most of the wealth then blame the social consequences on immigrants.
The media (check out who controls it) is playing you and wants you blame immigrants. Nothing has changed since the days of Robert Tressll
“The theories that drunkenness, laziness or inefficiency are the causes of poverty are so many devices invented and fostered by those who are selfishly interested in maintaining the present states of affairs, for the purpose of preventing us from discovering the real causes of our present condition.”
― Robert Tressell. The Ragged Trousered Philanthropist.
icanshootwell
Member
- Location
- Ross-on-wye
If your so well informed, please tell me why so many choose not to work, let me tell you how much i had to pay for nursery fees while the mrs went to work £600 per month was the cost, it was hardly worth her going to work, i can tell you, so don,t preach to me about the cost of living, OH and i am so pleased the gov are ahead of me, is that why there making such an excellent job on brexit, what we need is a TRUMP like figure running this country, who would sort out all the dead wood, i am sure there would be plenty of sackings.
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ollie989898
Member
Country will end up like Saudi Arabia. A rich indigenous elite of Saudis with the crap work all done by migrant Pakistanis or Indonesisans living in ghettos.
Hilly
Member
- Location
- Scottish Borders.
Are you a net contribute`r or net benefit recipient ?
asparagusbrain
Member
But it is the same for the US bona fide citizens. No one gets free healthcare there, apart from that short blip known as Obamacare. Not sure about the welfare, but the fact that there is no statutory maternity leave suggests it is not that easy either.
I don't have any stats on that - please share if you do, so can think only of own (anecdotal) experience. All my immigrant friends are sufficiently fluent in English, I doubt that there is any additional cost involved in accommodating them in any respect. For my own children, who are bilingual in Russian and English, I consciously chose to employ a nanny who speaks a third language (Spanish), and the progress they made with her in 6 months is simply fantastic (I guess some credit should also be given to Dora the Explorer). I am currently brushing up on my (very rusty) French with a budding poet/rapper originally from francophone Africa, and she's the most outstanding teacher I've ever had. A multitude of languages on your doorstep also opens a multitude of opportunities.
ollie989898
Member
I understand why the country might wish to attract migrant workers, but public services must be additionally funded pro rata or migrants should be obliged to pay.
This of course does nothing to address the housing issues facing thousands of Brits who work here in perfectly good jobs yet who cannot afford to buy a single brick.
Are these people in favour of 3 million Poles coming to the UK and in effect depressing wages? I doubt it.
This of course does nothing to address the housing issues facing thousands of Brits who work here in perfectly good jobs yet who cannot afford to buy a single brick.
Are these people in favour of 3 million Poles coming to the UK and in effect depressing wages? I doubt it.
Hilly
Member
- Location
- Scottish Borders.
We are not in the USA they can do as they please.
ollie989898
Member
Do you appreciate the burden 3 million Poles might place on public services?
wasted years
Member
- Location
- Cumbrian born and bread
Housing is supply and demand, nothing more or less, try getting permission, that is the problem .
wasted years
Member
- Location
- Cumbrian born and bread
Appreciation works both ways, without Polish sacrifice during conflicts would we even be free today?
This is supposed to be a christian country, love thy neighbour etc etc.
ollie989898
Member
Where do these 3 million Poles work and live?
wasted years
Member
- Location
- Cumbrian born and bread
Do you want all their addresses?
This may take time herr Colonel.
ollie989898
Member
I want to know why pensioners and Brits in my own country, many of whom have paid tax all their lives cant get a routine operation on the NHS within 90 days or who are sat on beds in hospital corridors in A and E???
Traffic dodger
Member
I wonder how many Christians are in the uk % wise now days as opposed to other religions.
The sentiment is great, but sadly ain't going to happen.
Ask the palestinians ... or the Israelis.
wasted years
Member
- Location
- Cumbrian born and bread
Easy, because the NHS works in the dark ages using outdated methods and practices that a private firm could not afford.
Millions upon millions are wasted every year because you poor old Brits and pensioners don't f**king turn up for appointments and also the NHS for some bizarre reason pays more than it needs to for some medicines (or so I am told).
Were it not for immigrant labout your pensioner would likely die if he/she had to wait on our fat lazy devils getting anything done.
Go to any hospital and check out the fat gits, my wife despairs of them, and these are healthcare professionals!!
Immigration my left hand, an easy target for lazy racists.
asparagusbrain
Member
Never made a precise calculation. Fiscally, a net contributor, I guess, as I prefer to go private with healthcare and education for the family, and my tax bills are quite depressing.
However, I find it hard to place a specific monetary value on intangible benefits of living in modern Britain - such as the liberal tradition, the open society, multiculturalism, all those things money can't buy.wasted years
Member
- Location
- Cumbrian born and bread
Don't forget that TFF is free, access to real racists for nowt.Never made a precise calculation. Fiscally, a net contributor, I guess, as I prefer to go private with healthcare and education for the family, and my tax bills are quite depressing.