"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

[Rob Garrett]

If its a heritage variety surely it will be long strawed? Chop the heads off then mow and bale with the knifes in/ chop for silage with plenty scratch factor?

Yes, I like the thinking; heritage variety, tall stiff straw, no bag N, light yield, so providing weather is kind it will not go flat. Any green going through combine will put grain moisture up but providing wheat ears are even height above grass, happy days. Biggest question is "what are you trying to achieve, what are the benefits over growing just wheat or just grass?". Seems high risk to me, would be good to make it work though.

 

[hendrebc]

I've tried pasture cropping (meant for wholecrop) but in the spring and it failed. Autumn sowing would probably work much better even in low growing crappy grass it was smothered.
Won't be bothering again have decided I'm much better off concentrating on grass and stock that will thrive off it.
Having said that I will try some Italian ryegrass into some of those fields late this summer as a not very diverse but fairly reliable winter feed/cover crop.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I've tried pasture cropping (meant for wholecrop) but in the spring and it failed. Autumn sowing would probably work much better even in low growing crappy grass it was smothered.
Won't be bothering again have decided I'm much better off concentrating on grass and stock that will thrive off it.
Having said that I will try some Italian ryegrass into some of those fields late this summer as a not very diverse but fairly reliable winter feed/cover crop.

Try around the second new moon after the summer solstice ?

 

[Ben Pattinson]

"Planned Holistic Grazing" Isn't that just mob grazing and having enough plots to leave approx 8 weeks before the mob revisits that plot?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Yes, I like the thinking; heritage variety, tall stiff straw, no bag N, light yield, so providing weather is kind it will not go flat. Any green going through combine will put grain moisture up but providing wheat ears are even height above grass, happy days. Biggest question is "what are you trying to achieve, what are the benefits over growing just wheat or just grass?". Seems high risk to me, would be good to make it work though.

Cereals are super easy to grow if you aren't worried about yields, the main thing that "lets the side down" is that most people just plant far too many seeds/m², and then it all gets covid and syphillis

 

[hendrebc]

Try around the second new moon after the summer solstice ?

That would roughly be when I put this Italian in.
It's frustrating when it doesn't work. The grass on that field was grazed literally to the mud. The barley and oats came through and you could see the rows quite a bit above the grass for about 6-8weeks then it disappeared. The grass never got above ankle height I got all of 10 bales off 4 acres. It should have worked there was certainly no spring blaze of growth to smother it. It just confirmed what I already thought that this is a grass farm and not to bother with cereals again.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

"Planned Holistic Grazing" Isn't that just mob grazing and having enough plots to leave approx 8 weeks before the mob revisits that plot?

If that's what you want it to be, then that's what it is?
For us it's about planning the ideal migration of our mobs around the ranch, to improve the health of everything, including the mental health and the health of the bank account.
What you describe I would call AMP or adaptive multipaddock grazing, which doesn't necessarily follow a plan, but a recipe.

 

[JohnGalway]

"Planned Holistic Grazing" Isn't that just mob grazing and having enough plots to leave approx 8 weeks before the mob revisits that plot?

Nope ?

 

[JohnGalway]

Permanent areas but flexi time is what we usually do on our ground away from home, we've quite a few small fields and some difficult to reach areas that would be just too much hassle at certain times of year to use electric, especially when they involve driving to get to, the average size of our rented fields are around 2.5 acres so I recently split our own field that's away from home into 2.5 acre paddocks too, using permanent fences. We can split them further with electric when we want, but if time or other commitments don't allow we can still have a functional grazing rotation - worse case scenario is it ends up as 3 day shifts. A smaller field on the round might get hammered when we have a bigger mob going round but we can move them out faster or just skip past that field on the next round for double rest, there's a 5 acre field we usually put them on for an extra day or two, or as long as is needed if out of the growing season.

Around our house my wife didn't want electric fencing as she was adamant the kids would all be electrocuted, so to keep the peace I bodged up ten semi-permanent half acre paddocks, which are actually really handy for tups, or sick sheep, they can be kept separate from the flock but still be on their own little rotation, in the summer when the mob is bigger we can still blast through them with everything.

By the way I love the satellite photo showing all the walls, (the holistic grazing infrastructure pre fencing?)

3 day shifts are probably where I need to restart at, and use the time to rebuild for shorter stays and better density. Ideally I'd not like to go over that time as I'm into overgrazing territory then.

I was once told all the walls was part of the "Rundale system" of farming. A farmer I know on Twitter was asking how the old people used to manage keep animals within them (they're quite low currently and I'm not sure they have an average height). I figure way back when that stock were a lot quieter and used to being both handled and herded. There were also many, many more people around with large families being the norm.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Had a nice dash of rain here, it was getting a bit boooring being dry. About an inch overnight and more through the morning.
Been champing at the bit 'to have an excuse' to do some more shifting and so I made their areas a bit smaller again, around 135m² instead of 240, so that made a massive difference.

I'm going to keep them at similar density for the next lane too, because I like what I see, both in terms of how they're grazing and how they're impacting the land. Especially in the damper conditions.

ETA, this is what calves look like at 1,000,000kg/ha

 

[JohnGalway]

Mart is reopening ??

 

[Sharpy]

3 day shifts are probably where I need to restart at, and use the time to rebuild for shorter stays and better density. Ideally I'd not like to go over that time as I'm into overgrazing territory then.

I was once told all the walls was part of the "Rundale system" of farming. A farmer I know on Twitter was asking how the old people used to manage keep animals within them (they're quite low currently and I'm not sure they have an average height). I figure way back when that stock were a lot quieter and used to being both handled and herded. There were also many, many more people around with large families being the norm.

The other thing is that cattle at least have massively increased in size, there's a fence on a field near here with 4'6" stobs in it from the 50s, with modern 5'6" in between to get sufficient height to hold cattle. The man that put the fence up said 5 years after he put it up the cows were stepping over it! Also our cows in the 1800s byre at home (improved and widened in the early 50s as the original byses were a foot too short) were mostly standing in the grip, with some on the walk. So cattle today are probably 3 ft longer and 2ft higher than they were when your walls were built.

 

[Whitewalker]

The other thing is that cattle at least have massively increased in size, there's a fence on a field near here with 4'6" stobs in it from the 50s, with modern 5'6" in between to get sufficient height to hold cattle. The man that put the fence up said 5 years after he put it up the cows were stepping over it! Also our cows in the 1800s byre at home (improved and widened in the early 50s as the original byses were a foot too short) were mostly standing in the grip, with some on the walk. So cattle today are probably 3 ft longer and 2ft higher than they were when your walls were built.

Wonder how they tasted back then

 

[Sharpy]

Wonder how they tasted back then

Possibly tastier, I think that they weren't killed till 4 or 5.

 

[Whitewalker]

Possibly tastier, I think that they weren't killed till 4 or 5.

??

 

[awkward]

Kitt Pharo comes to mind with his philosophy of smaller cattle

 

[Guleesh]

Yesterdays move, unfortunately the luscious green stuff is bracken, I will be following behind the sheep with the quad and topper.

Luckily this time the move went really smoothly and we got home just in time to save our house from the dishwashers best attempts to burn it down....

 

[JohnGalway]

The other thing is that cattle at least have massively increased in size, there's a fence on a field near here with 4'6" stobs in it from the 50s, with modern 5'6" in between to get sufficient height to hold cattle. The man that put the fence up said 5 years after he put it up the cows were stepping over it! Also our cows in the 1800s byre at home (improved and widened in the early 50s as the original byses were a foot too short) were mostly standing in the grip, with some on the walk. So cattle today are probably 3 ft longer and 2ft higher than they were when your walls were built.

Kitt Pharo comes to mind with his philosophy of smaller cattle

Reminds me of a slide in a video presentation, pointer bobbing between grass and the underside of the cows belly "See that space? We don't get paid for that!", in other words cattle were too tall, or had been selected for size from animals who's sex hormones kicked in later than the smaller, more fertile "less desirable" shorter animals.

We've been quite successful in unlearning what our backwards ancestors knew, progress comrades! Onwards toward a ten foot tall cow! More poverty for all!

Pharo, Zeitsmann, Salatin, Judy, all on message with the small cattle = more profit per acre.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Kitt Pharo comes to mind with his philosophy of smaller cattle

Hence our calves. Why aim for something my land doesn't fit?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Kitt Pharo comes to mind with his philosophy of smaller cattle

Reminds me of a slide in a video presentation, pointer bobbing between grass and the underside of the cows belly "See that space? We don't get paid for that!", in other words cattle were too tall, or had been selected for size from animals who's sex hormones kicked in later than the smaller, more fertile "less desirable" shorter animals.

We've been quite successful in unlearning what our backwards ancestors knew, progress comrades! Onwards toward a ten foot tall cow! More poverty for all!

Pharo, Zeitsmann, Salatin, Judy, all on message with the small cattle = more profit per acre.

Hence our calves. Why aim for something my land doesn't fit/handle?