It was going to be cover crop after cereal.......it was going to backstop in case I got struck with lambs because of covid. I did throw in some rye and short term grass in some paddocks tho. The paddocks I'm reseeding have been in cereal too!Wow. They'll soon drive the seed market underground at that rate.
Maybe you could grow a hectare or two and bale it into conventional bales of hay, say you put 50 bales of seed hay into each of your other paddocks each year you could maybe justify it.
As just something to take out of pasture and put into "covercrop" then that large cost is going to be hanging over it, isn't it!?
Is it going to be more regenerative or less, since the paddock now "owes you more"
"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..
- Thread starter Kiwi Pete
- Start date
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Wear your helmet and bite down hard on the crayon
He’s after some new boots
- Location
- somerset
how many farmers, would call it weedy. The future looks rather uncertain, all we know, it it will seriously change, brexit and covid, have guaranteed that, what will be the outcome, nobody really knows. As farmers, we have to both feed the world, and survive ourselves. We have been happily led, by the nose, down a path that encourages investment, intensification to produce cheap food. We can very easily produce the food, quite cheaply, what we cannot do, is influence the end price. That end price needs to be kept cheap, for political good reason. What we can do, is alter the way we produce it, between us, and the public buying the food, is an enormous industry, designed, in one way, or another to live off us farmers, either buying, or selling to them, and they constantly find ways of relieving us off our money, good luck to them, they have achieved their aims, very successfully, esp the s/mkts. To counter this, in a changing time, seems impossible, but a time of great change, is also a time, for us, to look at how we do things, on our own farms, this tread is entitled improving our lot, and seeks out methods/things/crops, to do that, and hopefully realising, that many successful systems, were altered to provide ever more cheaper food. The latest new way, is technology, leading us into an ever more increasing technology complicated way. Here in the UK, since ww2 we have been asked to produce more food, which we have done, but i would wager if a cheaper source was found, we would be kicked out !
What we need to do, is cut out parts of the chain, between us, and the end user, so while the price may not alter, our costs will, one of the biggest problems, in the drier areas of the UK, is the loss of soil structure, only now coming apparent, the wetter areas haven't seen it yet. Virtually everything on this thread, boils down to that one fact, even guv recognises that. If we all farm to that theme, with improving structure, soil will become more fertile, will hold moisture better, both of which, will increase yields, with lower imputs, as long as we don't reverse the methods ! Less imputs, higher yields = better profits.
To do this, we have to read ideas, on this thread, and other platforms, look at the organic systems, which i personally don't agree with, pick out all the good bits, that will suit our own farms, and get on with it, ignoring all the remarks on route, as long as it reduces expenditure, some modern methods are great, so it's a massive list, to pick from ! If it fails, you can revert back, you haven't spent huge sums, en route, you will have given your land a break, so reverting is easy, somehow, i think most will see definite advantages, in a very short time, and just keep going, using sprays/fert etc, only when really needed.
What we need to do, is cut out parts of the chain, between us, and the end user, so while the price may not alter, our costs will, one of the biggest problems, in the drier areas of the UK, is the loss of soil structure, only now coming apparent, the wetter areas haven't seen it yet. Virtually everything on this thread, boils down to that one fact, even guv recognises that. If we all farm to that theme, with improving structure, soil will become more fertile, will hold moisture better, both of which, will increase yields, with lower imputs, as long as we don't reverse the methods ! Less imputs, higher yields = better profits.
To do this, we have to read ideas, on this thread, and other platforms, look at the organic systems, which i personally don't agree with, pick out all the good bits, that will suit our own farms, and get on with it, ignoring all the remarks on route, as long as it reduces expenditure, some modern methods are great, so it's a massive list, to pick from ! If it fails, you can revert back, you haven't spent huge sums, en route, you will have given your land a break, so reverting is easy, somehow, i think most will see definite advantages, in a very short time, and just keep going, using sprays/fert etc, only when really needed.
Weedy!! How dare you
. I’m glad there are some weeds there in places for ground cover where the rooks has the oats and peas. The cows seem to eat some of the chickweed as well.
- Location
- Quebec, Canada
So now what?
Grazing is over for the year. I will use the grazing chart to plan next year ‘s grazing but otherwise wonder what info to take off this document. I used to make long , complicated calculations about how many 500 lb round bale equivalents I got from each paddock based on nutritional needs of all animals as they grew. Then I would never look at them again as I realised than rain or lack of it, is the determining factor of quantity. Quality is a different story .
So, does anyone keep records of how they fared or is the only important record how much profit you made per acre ? or carrying capacity ( which is useless info if you supplement, or not?)?
Grazing is over for the year. I will use the grazing chart to plan next year ‘s grazing but otherwise wonder what info to take off this document. I used to make long , complicated calculations about how many 500 lb round bale equivalents I got from each paddock based on nutritional needs of all animals as they grew. Then I would never look at them again as I realised than rain or lack of it, is the determining factor of quantity. Quality is a different story .
So, does anyone keep records of how they fared or is the only important record how much profit you made per acre ? or carrying capacity ( which is useless info if you supplement, or not?)?
- Location
- somerset
but have now taken on 75 acres, close to home , at about £80, long term, with a land lord who wants the land kept tidy, and in good heart. Sneaky suspicion he had decided, before we formally asked, as met him out walking, and enquired, on a gen chat. Plenty of interest though.
- Location
- Glen Clova, Angus, DD8 4RD
Put like that makes the seed look good value, doesn't it!
- Location
- somerset
with i/c hfrs, and dry cows, out on kale, and 50 sp calvers out on the other end of the kale, work load, straw and fodder stocks seem to be lasting well, we have 2 groups of y/s, 16 on straw, in an 80x30 yard, and 7 in a 24 x50 yard, these are managing on very little straw ! 40 i/c/ bullers in cubicles, and 120 cows in cubicles, our straw use is down to 25% of normal, 2 big loads, rather than the 4 or 5 we normally have. Kale is great, but cattle look rough in wet weather, min vet told us, cattle in deep mud, on fodder crops, in winter, were the biggest complaint, with 'starving' them, included ! And yet, years back, we were delighted to stop outwintering, on kale, and have them nice and clean inside !
- Location
- Hertfordshire
Last week of July. A home made mix.When was it drilled @Samcowman? Is it an off the shelf mix or home made? Looks good
Lessons learnt from this.
If direct drilling 2 different seeds don’t compromise and put big and small seeds together just run 2 passes of the drill at different depths I think the birds wouldn’t have been so much of a problem if the peas and oats had been at their correct depth rather than pretty much on the surface. Also needed to get it in earlier, that month of bugger all grazing in July would have been easily been done without. Finally more diversity. With only 1 legume option in there once the birds had taken the peas the legume part of the mix was gone.
On a positive note the failure of part of the mix proves the need for diversity as the other part of the mix came through and still had a crop.
- Location
- Hertfordshire
You’ve pretty much summed up all my mistakes with my home mix. What I’ve got this year is a very thin crop but I didn’t spray off the grass for insurance of a crop failure. So I’ve effectively got some decent grass with some random species everywhere.
Im going to try again next year and definitely be drilling early summer
I agree spraying off is a must. There was about half an acre worth left in he hopper which we drilled out in an acre field next door which didn’t really come to much. Also getting some muck on there before drilling will really help it along.
I feel doing this is a good way of getting a new ley in the ground whilst giving it a break for the soil pests. It probably getting it in early spring for summer grazing crop followed by autumn reseed. All reseeds here now will be herbal, diverse and resilient (hopefully) the aim is to cut out artificial fert on all grazing ground.
This could probably be done by improving the existing pasture through grazing but using a dose of roundup a forage crop followed by the new seeds is buying time and also creating quality forage in the summer when feed can get tight.
Anyone else read How To Not Go Broke Ranching? It’s the only book I have read on HM, and is not very scientific, but it makes a lot of sense. It focuses on raising the type of animal that makes you money (not necessarily what ‘the market’ says it wants), matching number of mouths to feed with seasonal availability of fodder, and making the cattle do the work of converting grass into cash. Very US focused, and a little outdated, but an interesting and amusing read.
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I like what you've said there....the thing here is the way the Wellington muppets have written the rules, Reading between the lines they want plant base and plant based only! I've spent some time looking into this and been involved in the early stages of a plant based project and have come to a conclusion. Plant based is complete rubbish.
It has nothing to do with been better for the environment it's all about taking low value grains and pluses and extracting maximum returns through the value chain.
- Location
- Hertfordshire
So what did you have in your mix?
Did you think there was much of a saving in buying it in? My mix was a tweaked version of a cotswolds one, but I had bulk Oats, Peas, Barley and Clover so just bought the other bits. I think I saved £250-300 in seed costs, but that’s before time mixing and costing what seed I had in the shed.
- Location
- Quebec, Canada
green cover seeds in the States has a service they call ‘smart Mix’.you put in your zip code and based on your location and intentions for a given field you can add species to a mix to achieve those goals. We live just over the border so I use a US address for the location. If a company in the UK doesn’t offer thisservice maybe you could find an address in the States that has a similar climate to yours to find a mix that would work to fill your needs.
- Location
- Cei newydd
How long have you kept records?
How much does the amount of grass grown vary over the years?
Do you change stocking rate to how much grass or hay you have?
Do you change your plan every year, or just tweak it?
Ive kept a record for the last three years, but i haven't kept a grazing chart or put a plan on paper i just walk weekly and ajust acordingly.
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
One thing that may be a consideration for you, place your new chart over that one and trace it with a pencil - so you don't (plan to) graze any area two years in a row. Thus it already forms a template for your next annual migration by having your 'don't wants' visible?
Then plan around your 'don't wants' to arrive at your 'do wants'?
How do you feel you went, did your grazing match your plan? What did you learn?
Like you, we have huge variables with rain and also our stocking rate/stock classes, so I don't record it as such. I do keep animal-grazing-days per ha records sometimes, but not always.
What I can say is that we've better than doubled our grazing days/ha but by how much is open to interpretation, as we're still rehydrating after a couple of dry years and it's our limiting factor, clearly it is