"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

[Blaithin]

We use the token hereford in the mob for target practice @Blaithin View attachment 923740
She is going to taste awfully good, def a freemartin

She even looks like crap without the crap considering everyone else!

Hereford is a great terminal cross. But why deal with the cows when you can use a bull instead

 

[Crofter64]

Haven't popped in here for a bit. See I didn't miss much if you've all gone Hereford

Even I’ve got a little Hereford cross calf this year!

 

[Crofter64]

Sold the Hereford this year. He did manage 5 years without trying to kill himself. I've been told the horned ones are better at surviving.

Should be noted that the entire reason we got him was nobody else wanted him at the auction so he was cheap

Tipped the auction scale at just under 2500 lbs after his hard summer of work with 7 cows.
View attachment 923701

Now all we've got are a couple of his half Herf heifers from last year.

He was a beauty!That’s a classic pic.

 

[GC74]

Got a couple of paddocks to sow down in pasture......paddocks will be used for sheep grazing and silage, wondering what mixes people are using?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I quite like the old-style "dryland sheep & beef mixes as a base, then stir other things into them. They don't have the flash high-sugar stuff in them so the price/ha is quite a bit lower and then you can afford a bit more of this and why not that.

Our pastures have a lot of crested dogstail in them which is why they grow like stink through spring and keep short, why they "are a weird green"
Also some short-rotation hybrid type ryegrass and 2kg/ha extra cocksfoot, chicory and cheap VNS clover. Seems to last well.

Last reseed I went for a prairie grass-cocksfoot-timothy mix and put double rates of clovers in because I thought they may not fill out and cover the soil very fast but it's good, the proof is often how long they last if you're cutting them

 

[GC74]

Been there done the high sugar stuff. Besides the cost per ha is nuts with some of these new grasses. I like Timothy so that was going in haven't used any cocksfoot but sort of keen to try some. What was the prairie grass?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

She even looks like crap without the crap considering everyone else!

Hereford is a great terminal cross. But why deal with the cows when you can use a bull instead

Agreed, we were given 3 herefords as orphans/ spare twin in her case. She is in good shape really, I just tried an angle that stops her looking like a ball of lard.

Sarah's pet, I am going to put her in our freezer before winter (heifer not wife)

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Been there done the high sugar stuff. Besides the cost per ha is nuts with some of these new grasses. I like Timothy so that was going in haven't used any cocksfoot but sort of keen to try some. What was the prairie grass?

Prairie grass is a soft brome cultivar, doesn't last long in normal grazing conditions but if you plan for seeding out every now and again it should regen OK.

I'm heading out so will grab you a photo before it gets dark or soon at least. I used 50:50 :

Barenbrug Export (.biz) // Bromus subsps

Barenbrug Export

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Atom prairie grass | Agricom

Atom prairie grass is an alternative short to long-rotation option for high quality feed requirements.

www.agricom.co.nz

 

[hendrebc]

Got a couple of paddocks to sow down in pasture......paddocks will be used for sheep grazing and silage, wondering what mixes people are using?

Last reseeds I've done I've just started with your usual ryegrass and white clover mix and added Timothy and cocksfoot. Bit more Timothy in wetter fields and more cocksfoot in drier ones. Then added some other stuff like plantain and chicory or some different clover like balansa or something. Will put a bit of red clover in the next mix I do as well if it's on drier land because I see the odd one coming back in some places so it must suit. Will get a low oestrogen one so at least that takes it's place instead of this feral one that probably isn't.
Gets a bit spendy if you add too much stuff though especially if some of them don't last! From speaking to people and reading on here those things seem to stick around quite well. Heard of plenty of people drilling herbal leys and end up with just grass, plantain, chicory and your more common clovers after a while, usually white. Especially with sheep grazing them.
Edit to add I probably won't bother with balansa again. It's still here but has been a bit of a letdown tbh after all the hype around it. Expensive too.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Got a bit dark for pictures I'm afraid.

but it is quite a substantial plant, the brome.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

The plan is these species will run more than 3 leaves, so I can leave 2 for the soil where one used to grow

 

[GC74]

Last reseeds I've done I've just started with your usual ryegrass and white clover mix and added Timothy and cocksfoot. Bit more Timothy in wetter fields and more cocksfoot in drier ones. Then added some other stuff like plantain and chicory or some different clover like balansa or something. Will put a bit of red clover in the next mix I do as well if it's on drier land because I see the odd one coming back in some places so it must suit. Will get a low oestrogen one so at least that takes it's place instead of this feral one that probably isn't.
Gets a bit spendy if you add too much stuff though especially if some of them don't last! From speaking to people and reading on here those things seem to stick around quite well. Heard of plenty of people drilling herbal leys and end up with just grass, plantain, chicory and your more common clovers after a while, usually white. Especially with sheep grazing them.
Edit to add I probably won't bother with balansa again. It's still here but has been a bit of a letdown tbh after all the hype around it. Expensive too.

Thanks for that.....haven't heard of anyone getting a long time out of herbal leys here either and are left with 3-4 species. Got a quote on a cover crop mix back in the autumn and it was just under $300/ha.........didn't put any in for some reason!

 

[GC74]

Got a bit dark for pictures I'm afraid.View attachment 923779
but it is quite a substantial plant, the brome.

Thanks for that Kiwi Pete. I did feel a bit bad I had just sat down with a bowl of ice cream when you said you were heading out! After reading the link you put up and looking at the photos I reckon it's worth a punt.

 

[som farmer]

Last reseeds I've done I've just started with your usual ryegrass and white clover mix and added Timothy and cocksfoot. Bit more Timothy in wetter fields and more cocksfoot in drier ones. Then added some other stuff like plantain and chicory or some different clover like balansa or something. Will put a bit of red clover in the next mix I do as well if it's on drier land because I see the odd one coming back in some places so it must suit. Will get a low oestrogen one so at least that takes it's place instead of this feral one that probably isn't.
Gets a bit spendy if you add too much stuff though especially if some of them don't last! From speaking to people and reading on here those things seem to stick around quite well. Heard of plenty of people drilling herbal leys and end up with just grass, plantain, chicory and your more common clovers after a while, usually white. Especially with sheep grazing them.
Edit to add I probably won't bother with balansa again. It's still here but has been a bit of a letdown tbh after all the hype around it. Expensive too.

is it expensive, when it performs when others don't ? But i know what you mean, new leys just don't seem to last their allotted time here, but the few odd pieces of pp we farm, and cannot really reseed, keep going whatever the conditions, might be slow, but the new leys are slower ! In a normal, whatever normal is, so, in a damp summer, leys will out perform the pp, the opposite when dry. Is this something we are not realising, management of pp, are we treating it the same as leys, fert wise ? We have farmed 4 acres of pp for 7 yrs ?, when we started, 1/2 hadn't been cut/grazed for 12 years, just an annual spray of mcpa, the rest, cut once, might get a second, very thin soil, with stone showing through. After a good dose of forefront x2, weeds are now under control, we strip graze with young stock, and grass will run to seed, which makes no difference to the grazing, clearance, is the same, start to finish, but allows the chance to see what's there, AMG, crested dogs tail, x2 fesques, timothy, cocksfoot, PRG and yorkshire fog, but little clover, which doesn't like it. Bit long winded, but the point i'm slowly getting to, is the difference in yield, due to the variety of grasses, or the difference in management, production from above field is x10 to what it was, including the last 3 dry summers. Perhaps we need to 'challenge' pp, to actually see, what it can do, under a 'proper' regime, rather than that bit of crap pp over there. Years ago we had a CI herd of cows, on very dry ground, which spent a lot of time grazing 'standing hay', and milked well, the b/w that replaced them, didn't, but I'm pretty sure, our xbreds, would produce off it, can't try it, as we no longer farm it. So, type of cattle, management, and a challenging attitude, may save us a a fortune, in reseeding costs !

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Thanks for that.....haven't heard of anyone getting a long time out of herbal leys here either and are left with 3-4 species. Got a quote on a cover crop mix back in the autumn and it was just under $300/ha.........didn't put any in for some reason!

Wow. They'll soon drive the seed market underground at that rate.
Maybe you could grow a hectare or two and bale it into conventional bales of hay, say you put 50 bales of seed hay into each of your other paddocks each year you could maybe justify it.
As just something to take out of pasture and put into "covercrop" then that large cost is going to be hanging over it, isn't it!?
Is it going to be more regenerative or less, since the paddock now "owes you more"

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Thanks for that Kiwi Pete. I did feel a bit bad I had just sat down with a bowl of ice cream when you said you were heading out! After reading the link you put up and looking at the photos I reckon it's worth a punt.

I like to shift the mobs about in the evening but just left it a little late to get a good focus, as it wanted to focus on the background

It's kinda like a halfway between shiny ryegrass and coarse cocksfoot, and generally the stock will graze it ahead of anything else.
Absolutely brilliant and it grows well through the cooler months, which is what we want here.
Summer production is already about 4x what we can handle

 

[Henarar]

Still got these few out, moved them in to here afew days ago, plenty of grass in front of them but they do like their bale of hay in the morning and it probably likes them.
Realy pleased with how the ground is holding up this time, in the past we have had to get lambs off this field because it became water logged and its on a fair slope so hard to believe but it did happen.
We have at least one more field for them after this one maybe more if its not to wet so hopefully out till Christmas at least.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

is it expensive, when it performs when others don't ? But i know what you mean, new leys just don't seem to last their allotted time here, but the few odd pieces of pp we farm, and cannot really reseed, keep going whatever the conditions, might be slow, but the new leys are slower ! In a normal, whatever normal is, so, in a damp summer, leys will out perform the pp, the opposite when dry. Is this something we are not realising, management of pp, are we treating it the same as leys, fert wise ? We have farmed 4 acres of pp for 7 yrs ?, when we started, 1/2 hadn't been cut/grazed for 12 years, just an annual spray of mcpa, the rest, cut once, might get a second, very thin soil, with stone showing through. After a good dose of forefront x2, weeds are now under control, we strip graze with young stock, and grass will run to seed, which makes no difference to the grazing, clearance, is the same, start to finish, but allows the chance to see what's there, AMG, crested dogs tail, x2 fesques, timothy, cocksfoot, PRG and yorkshire fog, but little clover, which doesn't like it. Bit long winded, but the point i'm slowly getting to, is the difference in yield, due to the variety of grasses, or the difference in management, production from above field is x10 to what it was, including the last 3 dry summers. Perhaps we need to 'challenge' pp, to actually see, what it can do, under a 'proper' regime, rather than that bit of crap pp over there. Years ago we had a CI herd of cows, on very dry ground, which spent a lot of time grazing 'standing hay', and milked well, the b/w that replaced them, didn't, but I'm pretty sure, our xbreds, would produce off it, can't try it, as we no longer farm it. So, type of cattle, management, and a challenging attitude, may save us a a fortune, in reseeding costs !

I think you nailed it with your comment about the attitude towards it, if we see it as old grass then it behaves that way - we manage it as "old crap" and we get old crap.
We nurse our reseeds, baby them, and they respond to being loved..

But the real thing is, if you want "regeneration" then you have to think of succession.
It's not all about not hurting the old plants too much, but also about creating the environment where plants can go too seed, and that seed can grow.
If our costs rise then we may not be able to afford 10-15% of the plants to reproduce, is what I'm getting at, or maybe we can't afford to do it at the right time to get the species we want to come through.

I think that's why when you do the formal HM training you do the financial plan first and then get into action planning once you have... because it demonstrates that production is seldom the problem with your business, it's the operating costs and social aspects that need the work 9/10 times.

Looking at seed cost, you don't need many tillers to make a bag of seed per acre, it only really needs to be grazed about the same stage you'd cut it down for silage and there will be more seed production then you could hope to afford to buy.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I really like the way this young fella can see what I see . Hopefully it doesn't bother him as he grows .

I asked him how he thinks we're going and he said, "good, Dad; we're bang on with the grazing chart and my feet are wet in these boots, what else is there, really?"

 

[Henarar]

Still got these few out, moved them in to here afew days ago, plenty of grass in front of them but they do like their bale of hay in the morning and it probably likes them.
Realy pleased with how the ground is holding up this time, in the past we have had to get lambs off this field because it became water logged and its on a fair slope so hard to believe but it did happen.
We have at least one more field for them after this one maybe more if its not to wet so hopefully out till Christmas at least.View attachment 923781

Oh this was last ploughed and reseeded around 1985, it really wants doing again as its slipped quite bad in places, we can't mow it now its quite a ride with the topper