"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

[Blaithin]

Cull hard for those issues.

In cattle reliance on parasitics has allowed susceptible animals to be carried with the herd. If you treat them like any other cullable issue instead of patching it with drugs, you can remove carrier animals and strengthen the herds ability to manage on their own.

 

[som farmer]

There's something I need to research, what biology can be introduced into the soil that prey on politicians.

I don't know enough about soil to offer reasoning why those pans are where they are, it sure would be interesting to find out though. Are they on a slope by chance? I wonder would the soil have eroded.

The hardest thing I'm finding is getting away from animal related chemicals, particularly when it comes to sheep. I think this would all be easier with cows. Fert and herbicides are easy for me, just stopped using them. But animal welfare is an entirely different ball game. It's a bit chicken and egg, the biology and diversity would keep most parasites in check but when it's not yet there then out come the chems to try to keep the problems at bay.

pans happen by ploughing continuously at the same depth, or by compaction. How the hell they managed to get those earliest pans, no idea, but the cause of many, was simply pride in there work, excellence was the way to judge a mans skill, exactly the same, year in, year out. My neighbour's man, still takes great pride, in replicating the same depth every year, wonders why water hangs on the surface, but insists there's no pan. Horses, and early tractors, all worked at an 'easy' depth, no deeper. The dust bowl, in the states, was a result of dead straight ploughing, pride and and competitions made that happen, the inclusion of contour ploughing halted that, you see the weird shaped fields today, look horrible to work, all bends and curves, might explain why d/d or min-til is so popular over there. Compaction, when you look at modern kit, and the weight of, or the continuous pounding of stock feet, that's the reason. our ground will pan, if we try to out winter cattle on it, or steady 'hard' rain post drilling, we have to work around that, just as we all have to work our farms, in the best way we think.
Land is never going to revert to what it was, if it did, starvation would occur, what we have to do, is try and work with nature, using the modern tools we have. Medicine, and welfare, are great tools, and there is no excuse for not using them, our stock should be healthy, but the amount we use, could be termed excessive, they have made life easier for us, and overuse, has resulted in resistant worms etc, just as a/b's for human treatment are becoming resistant. My own personal view, is we know food has to be cheaply produced, because purchase price is out of our control, and we need to provide for our families, therefore, we have to look at how we farm, and why we farm that way, and can we improve on that how, our 'route' was brought about by summer drought, and altering the way, my father and g/farther had done farmed, very successfully, autumn calving, and winter crops, our move to spr calving, not so good. By using some very basic ideas, on here, we have undoubtable made a difference, and it hasn't cost us any money, the opposite in fact, it's saved us money. Not all modern farming is bad, all the research done, has enabled farming to move foreword, what i/we need to do, is to use those modern ideas/products, in a way which compliments our farms, rather than a blanket approach, and i think, by going along the slow and steady route, our usage may well decrease, and yield might increase, in any case, our soils will improve, and that will help the carbon, if nothing else. Perhaps the old saying, 'look after your soil, and it will look after you', is probably spot on.
On a much brighter note, re medicines, had a phone call today, asking if i would like my covid jab, they are now starting on the 65-70 age group, last i heard, was late march, for this age group, great to be british.

 

[Guleesh]

Cull hard for those issues.

In cattle reliance on parasitics has allowed susceptible animals to be carried with the herd. If you treat them like any other cullable issue instead of patching it with drugs, you can remove carrier animals and strengthen the herds ability to manage on their own.

Fine for internal parasites although fluke can be particularly devastating in certain years when conditions for it are just right.

I can't see how I'd get away with that policy for lice or sheep scab. I suppose you'd select for how well an animal tolerates infestation, but it would be completely impossible to do without major welfare issues.

We also have the added consideration of sharing grazings with other flocks.

 

[som farmer]

these products, used sensibly, keep our livestock healthy, as they should be, over use is the bigger problem.

 

[Blaithin]

Fine for internal parasites although fluke can be particularly devastating in certain years when conditions for it are just right.

I can't see how I'd get away with that policy for lice or sheep scab. I suppose you'd select for how well an animal tolerates infestation, but it would be completely impossible to do without major welfare issues.

We also have the added consideration of sharing grazings with other flocks.

Sheep I don’t know.

Cattle, lice are the same as internals. You have carrier animals more vulnerable to infestation. These then infect the rest of the herd. Cull hard and remove carriers, you will lower infestations.

Combine this with a mineral program and boosting immunity, there’s no reason you can’t lower the impact of louse infestations.

I’ve spoken to many producers who, once they started using lice as a culling criteria, began noticing improvement within the herd.

Community pastures will always require different management. Stricter vaccination and parasitics are required in those circumstances.

 

[Guleesh]

Sheep I don’t know.

Cattle, lice are the same as internals. You have carrier animals more vulnerable to infestation. These then infect the rest of the herd. Cull hard and remove carriers, you will lower infestations.

Combine this with a mineral program and boosting immunity, there’s no reason you can’t lower the impact of louse infestations.

I’ve spoken to many producers who, once they started using lice as a culling criteria, began noticing improvement within the herd.

Community pastures will always require different management. Stricter vaccination and parasitics are required in those circumstances.

I do agree that our reliance on chemicals to control parasites is ridiculous and I'll definitely think again about the lice, The problem is unless you allow the lice or scab problem to develop and spread I can't see how any meaningful selection process can take place, by which time I'll have been reported to animal health and fallen out with all my sheep keeping neighbours.

I also suspect the sheep here have been bred for such a long time depending on parasite controls that to reverse the trend will take a lifetime. I'm not doubting it could be done but imagine the % of animals that would need culling in the first few years to be too close to 100% to be affordable.

Not trying to be overly negative on the topic but I can't see us ever being free from some chemical usage, I think i'm better just trying to limit the use and try to control and somehow manage the damaging effects on soil health.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

What's his/ her fertiliser regime? Will you risk spreading unwanted pollution out across your ranch?

Very little, he's cut back a lot on fert now, I am going to put a bit of MOP and serp super on it soon as it happens.
They tickle it "little and often", probably not worth doing TBH but spending money and seeing tramlines makes a farmer feel good.

I don't have concerns about that, more the ragwort up there

 

[Blaithin]

I do agree that our reliance on chemicals to control parasites is ridiculous and I'll definitely think again about the lice, The problem is unless you allow the lice or scab problem to develop and spread I can't see how any meaningful selection process can take place, by which time I'll have been reported to animal health and fallen out with all my sheep keeping neighbours.

I also suspect the sheep here have been bred for such a long time depending on parasite controls that to reverse the trend will take a lifetime. I'm not doubting it could be done but imagine the % of animals that would need culling in the first few years to be too close to 100% to be affordable.

Not trying to be overly negative on the topic but I can't see us ever being free from some chemical usage, I think i'm better just trying to limit the use and try to control and somehow manage the damaging effects on soil health.

Think how you’re saying it though.

Parasitics are almost entirely used prophylactically. Oh it’s getting to be lice season, better use something to head it off.

So you’re going to try and lower your use. Great. What’s that mean?(this is going to be an example scenario, I don’t know how you plan on doing it or your current use)

Instead of dosing them twice a year, you’re going to cut back to once?

You’re still going to have animals used to multi doses a year start to show signs because of fewer doses and more time between doses.

So what about these animals that do start showing signs before you hit the time when you want to be dosing. Mark them down for culling. Separate them (hopefully this is possible as they could infect the others). Treat them if you aren’t culling immediately.

Again, I don’t know sheep, but lice in cattle don’t go zero to welfare overnight. You can see onset and treat accordingly. If you keep records on who is first onset and mark them to cull, eventually you will be taking out animals that are more sensitive to initial infestation. Theoretically the first ones seen are generally going to be the main carriers. (There is also some research that shows carriers are genetically disposed to it) Gradually as you elongate your periods between doses and cull as you go you should be able to wean the herd off prophylactic reliance. As it’s a gradual process it should also soften the pain of potentially having to cull a large amount of the herd and allow you to focus on lines that show more resilience.

It shouldn't be expected to be a quick or pain free process. It would be like trying to cull dairy animals subject to ketosis or milk fever. Go to the wrong barn and that can be the entire herd. You have to gradually work towards the goal and give the animals time to show you what they are capable of handling and introduce the good genetics you want.

The minerals are another area to focus. The presence of lice doesn’t mean it’s an overload of lice. Just as the presence of worms in a fecal test doesn’t always mean a heavy enough load to treat for. These organisms are something that are always around, it’s when they become overloaded that issues arise. Lice love long nights and winter coats, which we can’t really do anything about. However like other opportunistic parasites, they take advantage of lower immunity. Vitamin A and Vitamin D are big players here. A is something grazers can only get from plants via photosynthesis. Stored forages are known to deteriorate and lose Vitamin A so winter rations are not offering it in great amounts, right when animals will need it more due to long nights and winter coats. Tweek mineral programs to try and boost certain vitamins and minerals that may be offered in lower amounts in peak parasite seasons and you’ll be giving the animals a higher fighting chance.

 

[Guleesh]

Think how you’re saying it though.

Parasitics are almost entirely used prophylactically. Oh it’s getting to be lice season, better use something to head it off.

So you’re going to try and lower your use. Great. What’s that mean?(this is going to be an example scenario, I don’t know how you plan on doing it or your current use)

Instead of dosing them twice a year, you’re going to cut back to once?

You’re still going to have animals used to multi doses a year start to show signs because of fewer doses and more time between doses.

So what about these animals that do start showing signs before you hit the time when you want to be dosing. Mark them down for culling. Separate them (hopefully this is possible as they could infect the others). Treat them if you aren’t culling immediately.

Again, I don’t know sheep, but lice in cattle don’t go zero to welfare overnight. You can see onset and treat accordingly. If you keep records on who is first onset and mark them to cull, eventually you will be taking out animals that are more sensitive to initial infestation. Theoretically the first ones seen are generally going to be the main carriers. (There is also some research that shows carriers are genetically disposed to it) Gradually as you elongate your periods between doses and cull as you go you should be able to wean the herd off prophylactic reliance. As it’s a gradual process it should also soften the pain of potentially having to cull a large amount of the herd and allow you to focus on lines that show more resilience.

It shouldn't be expected to be a quick or pain free process. It would be like trying to cull dairy animals subject to ketosis or milk fever. Go to the wrong barn and that can be the entire herd. You have to gradually work towards the goal and give the animals time to show you what they are capable of handling and introduce the good genetics you want.

The minerals are another area to focus. The presence of lice doesn’t mean it’s an overload of lice. Just as the presence of worms in a fecal test doesn’t always mean a heavy enough load to treat for. These organisms are something that are always around, it’s when they become overloaded that issues arise. Lice love long nights and winter coats, which we can’t really do anything about. However like other opportunistic parasites, they take advantage of lower immunity. Vitamin A and Vitamin D are big players here. A is something grazers can only get from plants via photosynthesis. Stored forages are known to deteriorate and lose Vitamin A so winter rations are not offering it in great amounts, right when animals will need it more due to long nights and winter coats. Tweek mineral programs to try and boost certain vitamins and minerals that may be offered in lower amounts in peak parasite seasons and you’ll be giving the animals a higher fighting chance.

I do agree completely with what you say, and know it sounds like excuses, but the practicalities of carrying out these processes aren't straightforward for me.

When I turn the flock out to the hills which I have to do as the majority of my grazing is there, I can decide that the ewes are 100% lice and scab free and not medicate them. after a few weeks a ewe might start scratching due to lice, ( If it's on the roadside somewhere then half the other sheep keepers living nearby will see it and assume I have scab in my ewes)

So, it takes 3 days to gather in all the ewes and run them through the fank/yards. What can I possibly do other than treat the whole flock for lice and return them? and if I suspect scab (which is a notifiable disease) Then i have a duty not just to my sheep but also to all my neighbours to not allow it to spread. I can't afford to have the ewes in and out several times in a month, It simply takes too long and costs too much.

Again I appreciate it sounds negative and sounds like excuses but these are the realities of keeping sheep here.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Think how you’re saying it though.

Parasitics are almost entirely used prophylactically. Oh it’s getting to be lice season, better use something to head it off.

So you’re going to try and lower your use. Great. What’s that mean?(this is going to be an example scenario, I don’t know how you plan on doing it or your current use)

Instead of dosing them twice a year, you’re going to cut back to once?

You’re still going to have animals used to multi doses a year start to show signs because of fewer doses and more time between doses.

So what about these animals that do start showing signs before you hit the time when you want to be dosing. Mark them down for culling. Separate them (hopefully this is possible as they could infect the others). Treat them if you aren’t culling immediately.

Again, I don’t know sheep, but lice in cattle don’t go zero to welfare overnight. You can see onset and treat accordingly. If you keep records on who is first onset and mark them to cull, eventually you will be taking out animals that are more sensitive to initial infestation. Theoretically the first ones seen are generally going to be the main carriers. (There is also some research that shows carriers are genetically disposed to it) Gradually as you elongate your periods between doses and cull as you go you should be able to wean the herd off prophylactic reliance. As it’s a gradual process it should also soften the pain of potentially having to cull a large amount of the herd and allow you to focus on lines that show more resilience.

It shouldn't be expected to be a quick or pain free process. It would be like trying to cull dairy animals subject to ketosis or milk fever. Go to the wrong barn and that can be the entire herd. You have to gradually work towards the goal and give the animals time to show you what they are capable of handling and introduce the good genetics you want.

The minerals are another area to focus. The presence of lice doesn’t mean it’s an overload of lice. Just as the presence of worms in a fecal test doesn’t always mean a heavy enough load to treat for. These organisms are something that are always around, it’s when they become overloaded that issues arise. Lice love long nights and winter coats, which we can’t really do anything about. However like other opportunistic parasites, they take advantage of lower immunity. Vitamin A and Vitamin D are big players here. A is something grazers can only get from plants via photosynthesis. Stored forages are known to deteriorate and lose Vitamin A so winter rations are not offering it in great amounts, right when animals will need it more due to long nights and winter coats. Tweek mineral programs to try and boost certain vitamins and minerals that may be offered in lower amounts in peak parasite seasons and you’ll be giving the animals a higher fighting chance.

Good post.
Much of "the reliance on stuff" we like to think is bred into herds, or our soil for that matter.

We can't go cold turkey - but maybe it's "our business" that's the real addict, not the soil or our ewes..?

If you weren't concerned about animal welfare, making profit, genetic "improvement" then you could reasonably cut out a lot of inputs and just see "the wheels fall off", but that's unethical and impractical and likely quite unprofitable.

So you don't do it like that!

However a lower cost/lower overhead business can afford more "wheels falling off" than a finely balanced high-fixed cost business can, because they need that income and production level to continue, and so they feel bound to keep the status quo - "insurance treatments"

I personally think the direction of it is as important as what it actually is at one point in time, we don't worm sheep here but we certainly wouldn't hold back if we needed to do so.

Same with the calves we rear on milk powder, we can't simply pretend "they'll be alright without adrench" because then they start dying of respiratory stuff about now - lungworm turns to pneumonia turns to a dead calf. The ones on a cow probably will be alright without drench but there aren't really many rules when it comes to health.

I agree that probably the best form of medicine is what we eat daily, and that goes for everything around us.

 

[som farmer]

up to 2001 we had never experienced lice on calves, bought some calves, ex farm, and never been without them since
As block calving, our calf shed has been cleaned and empty for months at a time, but they always re-appear, 3 week calves, start, and then till 12 weeks, they are on regular de-louse, when needed, after that usually not a problem. Just wish we could stop them, culling obviously wouldn't work.

 

[Blaithin]

I do agree completely with what you say, and know it sounds like excuses, but the practicalities of carrying out these processes aren't straightforward for me.

When I turn the flock out to the hills which I have to do as the majority of my grazing is there, I can decide that the ewes are 100% lice and scab free and not medicate them. after a few weeks a ewe might start scratching due to lice, ( If it's on the roadside somewhere then half the other sheep keepers living nearby will see it and assume I have scab in my ewes)

So, it takes 3 days to gather in all the ewes and run them through the fank/yards. What can I possibly do other than treat the whole flock for lice and return them? and if I suspect scab (which is a notifiable disease) Then i have a duty not just to my sheep but also to all my neighbours to not allow it to spread. I can't afford to have the ewes in and out several times in a month, It simply takes too long and costs too much.

Again I appreciate it sounds negative and sounds like excuses but these are the realities of keeping sheep here.

No, I get that.

But you’ve said you’re planning on cutting back on use. So what does that involve?

Skipping a dose? Not treating until there’s signs? How are you planning on cutting down parasitics because by trying to do that you should be giving yourself the opportunity to notice first victims to mark them down as potential culls.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

We found there to be a massive difference between "having sheep" and "keeping sheep" - FWIW @Guleesh

Having sheep on a 10 month loan is long enough for problems to begin to show up
But "keeping sheep" on the same little tract of land for 400 years is a much different context, especially when there are no real avenues for dead-end hosts

The human equivalent would be testing for C-19 and all positive tests then go and volunteer in maternity wards, in theory you soon get great herd immunity but in practice you have a lot of people asking why you "put those little babies at such risk" and bury a lot of extra people for a start

 

[Blaithin]

Good post.
Much of "the reliance on stuff" we like to think is bred into herds, or our soil for that matter.

We can't go cold turkey - but maybe it's "our business" that's the real addict, not the soil or our ewes..?

If you weren't concerned about animal welfare, making profit, genetic "improvement" then you could reasonably cut out a lot of inputs and just see "the wheels fall off", but that's unethical and impractical and likely quite unprofitable.

So you don't do it like that!

However a lower cost/lower overhead business can afford more "wheels falling off" than a finely balanced high-fixed cost business can, because they need that income and production level to continue, and so they feel bound to keep the status quo - "insurance treatments"

I personally think the direction of it is as important as what it actually is at one point in time, we don't worm sheep here but we certainly wouldn't hold back if we needed to do so.

Same with the calves we rear on milk powder, we can't simply pretend "they'll be alright without adrench" because then they start dying of respiratory stuff about now - lungworm turns to pneumonia turns to a dead calf. The ones on a cow probably will be alright without drench but there aren't really many rules when it comes to health.

I agree that probably the best form of medicine is what we eat daily, and that goes for everything around us.

And lots of it will come down to the time of year.

You know when lungworm can increase pneumonia morbidity so manage for that at the high risk time of year/life stage of the animal.

I don’t treat for lice in spring. Spring, summer and fall are not lice times here. They’re a winter issue.

Similarly if a flock or herd is visible or exposed during summer grazing for issues, treat for those times. If they’re in close to home, housed, more hidden, more closely watched, easier to get in and treat, easier to try alternative management options, etc over winter, then if there’s a fall dosing that can be skipped or pushed back to notice vulnerable animals, then that could be the time to do it.

It can be as flexible as it needs to be.

 

[hendrebc]

If you do get an outbreak of love or scab you could mark the ones that are the worst affected and not keep replacements from those? I've just had to treat all mine for lice now and one or two had bare patches on their sides (I couldn't get them dry enough to treat any sooner), some just had signs of scratching on them and most looked unaffected. I didn't as it happens but we don't often have problems with it. It's over 10 years since I had to treat for lice or scab last we're very lucky to have good neighbours.

Avalon Genetics

Avalon Genetics. Breeding high performance, multi-disease resistant, low input sheep with less... 539 Shanks Rd, Heriot, New Zealand 9522

www.facebook.com

Avalon genetics over in NZ did a bit of a trial with lice resistance not that long ago when their potential breeding ram lambs had an outbreak. I couldn't find the post about it now though I seem to remember them putting them in a shed so it didn't spread and culling out the ones that were worst affected before treating them.

 

[Guleesh]

No, I get that.

But you’ve said you’re planning on cutting back on use. So what does that involve?

Skipping a dose? Not treating until there’s signs? How are you planning on cutting down parasitics because by trying to do that you should be giving yourself the opportunity to notice first victims to mark them down as potential culls.

Well I used to do the standard routine of giving them 'the works' every time they were in, which is the most cost efficient way of doing it, The cost of gathering in many places outweighs the cost of the medicines. After a few years it becomes apparent to me that If you bring in ewes for lambing and tupping every year at the same time, give them 'the works' and have them all manuring your good ground with their contaminated faeces then what I'm doing is concentrating all the chemical onto my best ground, and that ground is obviously suffering badly for it.

Since then we've worked to reduce as much as possible what chemicals we're using, the only wormer the ewes have received in the last 2 years has been a single cydectin injection they got for scab. Ticks, are something we don't worry about anymore and have seen almost no ill effects, but probably need to use something on lambs as ewes carrying a few more ticks are spreading more ticks.

We haven't treated for lice or scab until we've see it, but when we do suspect it we have to act very swiftly.

Fluke was initially a problem that increased with higher density stocking of ewes, obviously forcing them to graze more flukey ground that they would normally avoid. We have to pre-empt fluke to an extent as once the symptoms are showing the damage is already done. I think the fluke problem has already started to lessen with longer rest periods between grazes.

I believe the various chemicals at our disposal to treat these things are very valuable tools indeed, but also very expensive- not just in financial cost but in terms of damage to soil health. I think that with better timings (holistic planning?) I can at least protect the better ground from being continually poisoned whilst still maintaining the level of welfare necessary.

There's very little point in me trying to keep the hill ground chemical free when other people refuse to become hippies like me and continue to give their stock 'the works' every time they're gathered in.

I definitely want to start work on marking lice carrying ewes for cull, but the truth is there are far more important problems that need culling out of the flock first. We have a lot of work to do on increasing weaning rates and cutting out feed costs. Almost all of the sheep keepers around me reckon all sheep will disappear from the area if subsidy goes, plenty admit they make a loss without subsidy.

There are a lot of factors at play.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

If you do get an outbreak of love or scab you could mark the ones that are the worst affected and not keep replacements from those? I've just had to treat all mine for lice now and one or two had bare patches on their sides (I couldn't get them dry enough to treat any sooner), some just had signs of scratching on them and most looked unaffected. I didn't as it happens but we don't often have problems with it. It's over 10 years since I had to treat for lice or scab last we're very lucky to have good neighbours.

Avalon Genetics

Avalon Genetics. Breeding high performance, multi-disease resistant, low input sheep with less... 539 Shanks Rd, Heriot, New Zealand 9522

www.facebook.com

Avalon genetics over in NZ did a bit of a trial with lice resistance not that long ago when their potential breeding ram lambs had an outbreak. I couldn't find the post about it now though I seem to remember them putting them in a shed so it didn't spread and culling out the ones that were worst affected before treating them.

" A few good frosts gets them itchin' "

Temperature has a lot to do with how lice affect the sheep, as it cools down they start to "dig in" and they begin to bite.
Nearly every lamb I've caught breaking in here has had lice, but if you didn't have them over your shoulder you would never know they were lousy.

They do just fine.... and then the next week they're pulling their wool out and rubbing on everything

Between lice and flystrike it sealed the fate of "keeping sheep" on Leeside, far more benefits for us to occasionally run a flying mob and possibly mix our ragamuffins in with them for exposure.

That's why we mix things up so much; have seperate sheep + cows, have sheep+cows together, have cows + grazing cattle together, have grazing cows and sheep together.

Change/avoiding monotony is really important, again Dick Richardson is all over that where many regen gurus are really just trying to pass on a good recipe.

Recipe = problematic
Flexibility = dynamic

 

[Karliboy]

up to 2001 we had never experienced lice on calves, bought some calves, ex farm, and never been without them since
As block calving, our calf shed has been cleaned and empty for months at a time, but they always re-appear, 3 week calves, start, and then till 12 weeks, they are on regular de-louse, when needed, after that usually not a problem. Just wish we could stop them, culling obviously wouldn't work.

How many people pressure wash down and lime wash there buildings these days for new stock arriving that have had issues in them previously.
I’m pretty sure most farm buildings would have been lime washed back in the day quite regularly
I bought some young stock a few years back that looked clean but came out in ringworm (never had ringworm on farm until this point) within a couple of days in a brand new pen (clean block walls and concrete floor) that had never seen any animals in it before I then had issues in that pen with ringworm for a couple of winters at weaning as it never got cleaned down.
Got old man to wash it out and give it a few coats of lime wash and I have not had a problem since in there.
Its a ball ache of a job as I hate pressure washing anything let alone meter after meter of wall but I’m sure it’s a big benefit to animal health when they come inside to a clean fresh building.
Same thing happened in a few pens when I used to fatten b+w dairy bulls they all got calf sick as such.
No issues in the next bunch after a wash down and some lime splashed about.
I can’t seem to get it across to my dairy mate why he gets so much calf scour/sickly calves with dirty walls with lumps of calf sh!t stuck to them that have had a squirt of disinfectant just doesn’t cut it for cleanliness.
I also feel that it shows in a lot off his heifers to when they have had a bad start as calves.
we could say that that the stock need to build there own immunity but I think it’s very hard on a young calf to deal with dirty buildings.

Long post but it is only my own opinion

 

[som farmer]

ringworms a funny one, nothing for several years, then bang, bad dose right through the lot. To break it down further, really healthy calves, growing full bore, do not seem to be affected, but get a 'bad batch', that have a setback, then it gets in. I have found mineral 'extra' is a good deterrent, that goes back 35 years, when we were talked into buying some minerals, surprisingly, it worked, so all calves get a mineral drench, and rocksalt/min bucket, always available post weaning. Tried holly hung up, no different, homeothopy, no different. Vets have told us it's a 7 year cycle, the last bad bunch we had, are coming up to 2nd calving, so, 3/4 years, must keep a note of that date ! All our calf pens are cleaned, keep telling son, stack them outside, sun, rain and wind, are the best cleaners, floor of shed has a liberal covering of lime, walls are difficult, wood, and corrugated sheets, in defence of that, it was designed for cubicles, but turned out to be a fantastic calf shed, so it is now.

 

[Blaithin]

I definitely want to start work on marking lice carrying ewes for cull, but the truth is there are far more important problems that need culling out of the flock first. We have a lot of work to do on increasing weaning rates and cutting out feed costs. Almost all of the sheep keepers around me reckon all sheep will disappear from the area if subsidy goes, plenty admit they make a loss without subsidy.

There are a lot of factors at play.

That’s usually the case. I don’t practice what I preach because my cows are all sentimental

I guess the best that can be done is mark down the ones that show the soonest/the most severe. Maybe when you go to cull you’ll find they have other issues going on as well or you’ll just have them on record so if you need numbers to make a full load or to fill the freezer, they’re easy to look up. Or you at least have the record to see if it is certain family lines you maybe won’t want to keep lambs from.

Never hurts to record.