"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
I wasn't joking about "daffodil hill" over the back fence 😗
20210212_171711.jpg

bit of a different angle than I normally take a photo from..

you technograzers will now appreciate why I'll put a few wooden posts in over the crests of the rolly ridges, it isn't sharp but there would be quite a downward pull on an arrowpost.
- the odd wooden post will stop that risk of half the lane going flat to the ground and earthing us out
20210212_173555.jpg

At least they aren't right by the fence
 

Fenwick

Member
Location
Bretagne France
Shame my phone died or I would have got some good photos tonightView attachment 940249
This is about where we started the "total grazing" thing, not nearly enough recovery yet but it definitely has possibilities @Fenwick 😉

mainly because the trucks are too busy hauling lambs to haul these cattle away, and I have them close to the yards again so they're easy to draft out of the mob at short notice... this is about 40 days since grazed last (to the deck)
The difficult question is how long has the rotation taken compared to the time you assume you would have taken under your previous grazing regime. But there are so many variables!
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Yes, it is difficult! The fundamental problem with the "take some" grazing routine is it's like rotational grazing... there's always stress on the system when you want to slow down

great if you're running conventional stocking rates, becuase you cut a shedload of hay dealing with some of the surplus from earlier.

not so great if you're running 2.2x the area average SR because unless you destock or put supplementary feed in to facilitate slowing down.. you will be doing some "untoward acceleration" and some overgrazing

hence (as you'll know) you really need to decide what you are going to do for a certain area for a certain timeframe - fast or slow - and plan for it

that's why we are going the slow way from now on - I have no time to be messing about with hay and tractors to fill in holes in my management

My estimate was about 50 days and it took about 50 days, with the 30-40-50 days of being lightly stocked coming up I can see us starting about a 90-100 day round and then out to about 120-130 for winter.. and back to a 30-day or 60-day by September. Depends now on timing and numbers
 
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som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
dairy sale at exeter yesterday, watched on mart eye, there were 13 cows, i/c apr/may, at the end, cows and hfrs, the total for them came to £7060, not a lot, 1/2 started at £200. These cows came from a pasture only farm, they had never had any concentrate, wormers, or a/b's, nor were they dehorned. I was surprised the mkt even accepted them, unless cleared with trading standards, they were a welfare problem. Fine, they were what they were, and made crap money, but this pasture only, is what the public think, or are being told, is 'the' way they want/demand to have their food produced. These were an example of how things can go badly wrong, whether they were the best, or worst on that farm, we do not know, what i do know, if we kept cattle on our farm like that, it would be RSPCA Min vets, and anybody else that could report on the in humane way animals are kept, we have had a bad experience with a vegan, and compared to those, our cow was positively blooming. Mind you, a good worming, and goodish food, those cows would have altered !
This is the classic example of the way consumers are being led, to believe cattle should be kept 'naturally', with no 'bad' medicines, just there 'natural' food, grass. Well it doesn't quite work that way, cattle need to be treated if ill, and fed, when food is short, their 'natural' habitat, disappeared, 2/300 yrs ago, the clock cannot be turned back. The people to whom 'nature' is the gospel, are very good at putting a distorted view across, to a pretty gullible public, but they would be the first ones screaming rage, at the results of adhering to their gospel. There's not a lot we can do about it though, just another cross to carry.
 

Poorbuthappy

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Devon
dairy sale at exeter yesterday, watched on mart eye, there were 13 cows, i/c apr/may, at the end, cows and hfrs, the total for them came to £7060, not a lot, 1/2 started at £200. These cows came from a pasture only farm, they had never had any concentrate, wormers, or a/b's, nor were they dehorned. I was surprised the mkt even accepted them, unless cleared with trading standards, they were a welfare problem. Fine, they were what they were, and made crap money, but this pasture only, is what the public think, or are being told, is 'the' way they want/demand to have their food produced. These were an example of how things can go badly wrong, whether they were the best, or worst on that farm, we do not know, what i do know, if we kept cattle on our farm like that, it would be RSPCA Min vets, and anybody else that could report on the in humane way animals are kept, we have had a bad experience with a vegan, and compared to those, our cow was positively blooming. Mind you, a good worming, and goodish food, those cows would have altered !
This is the classic example of the way consumers are being led, to believe cattle should be kept 'naturally', with no 'bad' medicines, just there 'natural' food, grass. Well it doesn't quite work that way, cattle need to be treated if ill, and fed, when food is short, their 'natural' habitat, disappeared, 2/300 yrs ago, the clock cannot be turned back. The people to whom 'nature' is the gospel, are very good at putting a distorted view across, to a pretty gullible public, but they would be the first ones screaming rage, at the results of adhering to their gospel. There's not a lot we can do about it though, just another cross to carry.
What you describe (I didn't see it) is half starved cattle.
Doesn't matter what the diet is supposed to be made up of, if you don't give them enough of it, they will lose condition.
Adult cattle with adequate nutrition shouldn't need worming either. Fluke may be an issue.
 

GC74

Member
dairy sale at exeter yesterday, watched on mart eye, there were 13 cows, i/c apr/may, at the end, cows and hfrs, the total for them came to £7060, not a lot, 1/2 started at £200. These cows came from a pasture only farm, they had never had any concentrate, wormers, or a/b's, nor were they dehorned. I was surprised the mkt even accepted them, unless cleared with trading standards, they were a welfare problem. Fine, they were what they were, and made crap money, but this pasture only, is what the public think, or are being told, is 'the' way they want/demand to have their food produced. These were an example of how things can go badly wrong, whether they were the best, or worst on that farm, we do not know, what i do know, if we kept cattle on our farm like that, it would be RSPCA Min vets, and anybody else that could report on the in humane way animals are kept, we have had a bad experience with a vegan, and compared to those, our cow was positively blooming. Mind you, a good worming, and goodish food, those cows would have altered !
This is the classic example of the way consumers are being led, to believe cattle should be kept 'naturally', with no 'bad' medicines, just there 'natural' food, grass. Well it doesn't quite work that way, cattle need to be treated if ill, and fed, when food is short, their 'natural' habitat, disappeared, 2/300 yrs ago, the clock cannot be turned back. The people to whom 'nature' is the gospel, are very good at putting a distorted view across, to a pretty gullible public, but they would be the first ones screaming rage, at the results of adhering to their gospel. There's not a lot we can do about it though, just another cross to carry.
Yip well said we have alter the environment a lot over the years and change needs to be careful thought out but we seem to have a small group of extremists that are getting too much say and don't seem to care if there's any truth in what they say as long as they get the results they want! Also All around the world farmers seem to be up in arms over some rules or changes that governments are trying to bring in.........make one wonder who's pulling the strings
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
20210212_175906.jpg

reasonably obvious, "the string pullers" don't want the public to have easy access to health food

for every calorie they can process, adulterate, modify or make in a lab, it means more $$$$ for the people who will sell you a false health in a pill - it's just like the false "welfare" that reduces the ability to get around without crutches

why do you think "but we can't outwinter here" when the baseline is a 400kg carcassweight in the UK, pretty obvious that the status quo is to be upheld at any cost to the people or environment

control is the biggest business in the world
 

GC74

Member
You've made some good points there and I'm sure I should be able to come with something worth while to add,
But I've been enjoying a few IPAs with a mate so I'm going to bed now.
Cattle are looking good tho!
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
You've made some good points there and I'm sure I should be able to come with something worth while to add,
But I've been enjoying a few IPAs with a mate so I'm going to bed now.
Cattle are looking good tho!
Thanks, they should be gone by now.
Great day for a couple of brews though... ended up having a bit of quality time with the eldest lad catching fish up the river.

Off to Pyramid tomorrow to pick up a trailerload of microtroughs, tapping saddles, and other bits we need... so I should tuck in as well

cheers mate
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
Yip well said we have alter the environment a lot over the years and change needs to be careful thought out but we seem to have a small group of extremists that are getting too much say and don't seem to care if there's any truth in what they say as long as they get the results they want! Also All around the world farmers seem to be up in arms over some rules or changes that governments are trying to bring in.........make one wonder who's pulling the strings
i honestly think, that a large % of people, no longer equate their food with farming, not helped by some of the adverts we see on telly, a very clean farm, smocks, straw in mouth farmers, with cuddly animals. The public have been raised on a continuous diet, of bambi, watership down, wombles, beatrix potter, wind in the willows etc, which humanise animals.
Animals have to be looked after properly, no question of that, but they can never be looked after, as in the books, it's a fantasy, that, unfortunately the public perceive that they should be. And until food is very short, nothing will alter the attitude of people, it's the same old story, a hungry man has one problem, a full one has many.
 
i honestly think, that a large % of people, no longer equate their food with farming, not helped by some of the adverts we see on telly, a very clean farm, smocks, straw in mouth farmers, with cuddly animals. The public have been raised on a continuous diet, of bambi, watership down, wombles, beatrix potter, wind in the willows etc, which humanise animals.
Animals have to be looked after properly, no question of that, but they can never be looked after, as in the books, it's a fantasy, that, unfortunately the public perceive that they should be. And until food is very short, nothing will alter the attitude of people, it's the same old story, a hungry man has one problem, a full one has many.
There was a bit on Radio Scotland yesterday about clothes for animals. One woman was bemoaning the fact that she couldn't get clothes for her pet rabbit ffs.
 

Crofter64

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Quebec, Canada
View attachment 940741
reasonably obvious, "the string pullers" don't want the public to have easy access to health food

for every calorie they can process, adulterate, modify or make in a lab, it means more $$$$ for the people who will sell you a false health in a pill - it's just like the false "welfare" that reduces the ability to get around without crutches

why do you think "but we can't outwinter here" when the baseline is a 400kg carcassweight in the UK, pretty obvious that the status quo is to be upheld at any cost to the people or environment

control is the biggest business in the world
No underfed , welfare cows there!
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
another point, been lucky enough to have my covid jab today, reading the blurb that came with it, it contains genetically modified substances, will the people that demonstrate and rant about gm, have the jab, if they do, rather hypocritical, same applies to europe, with it's gm ban, and in there case, it isn't any good anyway !
But, all praise to the NHS, and whoever organised the jabbing, absolutely fantastic, 1 per minute today, well oiled conveyor belt, i was out and done in less than 5 mins, 9 jabbers jabbing ! It's a funny thing, but i sort of feel a weight has been lifted off me, haven't been, or really wanted to go far in the last year, but didn't expect to feel 'elated' either.
 
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bendigeidfran

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cei newydd
How long?🙈 Need to put myself in isolation to get through that one
I finished waching it in hospital this morning, id seen 40mins a while ago, another interesting talk and a few more things to think about.
He wasn't too keen on a lot of litter on the ground, good points about targeting a paddock or an area of land each year.
Iv'e plenty of time on my hands to do a lot of thinking about how to improve my lot.
 

Early moves to target wild oats

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Growers and agronomists now face the dilemma of an early application to remove competition from emerged wild oats, or holding off to allow more weeds to germinate.

Syngenta grassweeds technical manager, Georgina Wood, urges Axial Pro treatment as soon as conditions allow, once weeds are actively growing.

“That offers the chance to control wild oats more cost effectively at lower rates, whilst there is still the flexibility to tailor application rates up to 0.82 l/ha for larger or over wintered weeds and difficult situations.

“The variability of crops and situations this season means decisions for appropriate Axial Pro rates and application techniques will need to be made on a field-by-field basis,” she advised.

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Miss Wood urges...
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