IS GREEN RENEWABLE ENERGY A CON?

[Clive]

Sorry it was 120K miles

so on the basis that pretty much all, cars do way more than 120k miles in their lifetime these days ( 3 times that is not unusual) the quote was agreeing that the EV was greener ?

EV's get greener everyday as more renewable power comes on stream


mining of minerals for batteries isn't as black and white as some sensationalize either as the material value will mean these things are never thrown away, they will be recycled over and over


But yes - I drive an EV because it saved me money - not to save the planet !

 

[Netherfield]

I totally agree it is the way renewable energy is being marketed is a con. The marketing people are conning every one that the energy they are getting is predominately renewable. There are two aspects one being how it is being produced by the electricity producers and the second is the electricity market companies selling to individuals.

In the production of electricity it is not clear how "green" and how much it costs to produce electricity from each differing solutions based on a cost per kilowatt hour taking into account building, maintaining and disposal costs. Also how much subsidy is actually being given which is essentially factored into what the end user pays. I do not think people actually understand that the subsidy is added to the cost of a unit of electricity so comparing costs of different types of electricity without subsidy would be enlightening. I totally accept we must become more environmental aware, but sometimes using existing types of energy with clean technology can be just as "green" and carbon friendly than new renewable energy when looked at cradle to grave. I accept that coal and gas were "dirty" methods of producing electricity but with technology today what is actually emitted from some of the new power stations is actually very clean in environmental terms. Environmentalist always cry extraction of fossil fuels as dirty and a blot on the landscape, but to me large scale felling of trees is just as bad if not worse.

Drax to me has always seemed to be a con as others have said the importing and transport costs does not seem efficient in a carbon emitting sense and also the actual cost taking into account the whole supply chain.

Then we come to the companies selling "renewable" energy to individuals which is one very big con. I was recently talking to a neighbor who truly believed that the electricity he was buying from a company saying they were "fully" renewable was just that from renewable sources. When I told him no one knows exactly where the electricity is from as National grid buys it and it flows to all homes exactly the same so if your paying extra for renewable electricity your being conned to which he said he had not thought of the distribution of electricity and how he may not be getting what he is paying for. Then we have all these carbon credits being traded, I'm sure the same areas of land are being counted more than once in carbon capture accounts.

Spot on, our local council claim to only buy 'green energy' for all their needs, schools , council buildings and street lighting included, 'no matter that we pay a little more for the privilege' read the article in the local paper.

I put a letter in the local paper and sent a copy to the leader of the council asking how this was possible, no one bothered to reply.

E-on claim to sell only from renewable sources.

 

[Y Fan Wen]

so on the basis that pretty much all, cars do way more than 120k miles in their lifetime these days ( 3 times that is not unusual) the quote was agreeing that the EV was greener ?

EV's get greener everyday as more renewable power comes on stream


Tn mining of minerals for batteries isn't as black and white as some sensationalize either as the material value will mean these things are never thrown away, they will be recycled over and over


But yes - I drive an EV because it saved me money - not to save the planet !

I understand that end of life ev batteries are still eminently suitable for domestic battery schemes for years afterwards.

 

[Forkdriver]

That can’t be right, that would seem to imply that it takes less energy to make an electric car than a diesel will use traveling 120 miles, a couple of gallons for plenty of modern diesels .

Trouble is a lot of folk are quite happy to accept and quote any old statistics no matter how ridiculous they are

I can confirm that 89.3% of statistics are made up.

 

[Pilatus]

Until National Grid / electricity supply companies put separate power lines for green electricity around the country, eco electricity is a con , because at the moment all electricity however it’s produced comes to our homes and businesses along the same cable.

 

[Y Fan Wen]

Until National Grid / electricity supply companies put separate power lines for green electricity around the country, eco electricity is a con , because at the moment all electricity however it’s produced comes to our homes and businesses along the same cable.

Not quite. You can buy your electric from whoever you like. National Grid receives it and then delivers it.
No different from buying organic food from your favourite supplier and getting it delivered by UPS who has parcels of non organic produce in the van.

 

[Happy]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=511656216308338

 

[czechmate]

Why can't we have much more efficient engine upgrades or replacements for our current old vehicles.

And free or subsidised bodywork upkeep.

There’s a company in France electrifying old cars...

 

[Clive]

I understand that end of life ev batteries are still eminently suitable for domestic battery schemes for years afterwards.

even beyond that the mined minerals would be recycled- i don’t believe they deplete ?

 

[DaveGrohl]

Not quite. You can buy your electric from whoever you like. National Grid receives it and then delivers it.
No different from buying organic food from your favourite supplier and getting it delivered by UPS who has parcels of non organic produce in the van.

Indeed, it's a bit odd people getting their knickers in a twist over this. It's quite straightforward if you just stop to think for a second. Do people actually want all our power cables to be duplicated so that they can see green cables in the air? How would that improve things exactly? It would mean more denution of resources in yet another pointless fashion. Your shopping analogy is a good one but you don't even need the UPS van, you just need the shop and people can demand one thing over another inside the shop and the shop will respond to the shift in demand.

 

[Pilatus]

Not quite. You can buy your electric from whoever you like. National Grid receives it and then delivers it.
No different from buying organic food from your favourite supplier and getting it delivered by UPS who has parcels of non organic produce in the van.

At least the organic parcel is separate from the rest of the goods when it arrives at my house , the delivery driver hands me my organic parcel .Unlike the green energy which is mixed in with conventional energy when it arrives at my house,along a cable , there is absolutely no way that ,the conventional and green electric can be separated at my house.

 

[warksfarmer]

a good article in the sunday times business section about the drax powerstation, the article said that it imports wood chip from lousiana usa to burn in the powerstation to create electricity and gets nearly £900 million a year in subsities from the govt how the hell does all that make sense ? one is it really all that green when you take all the energy used to cut the wood chip and then transport it to burn ? and why should we have to import it in the first place ? cant we either burn our own wood chip and pay our own people, or dare i say burn coal and employ , keep all the money in the uk economy, and what about the subsidy paid to burn this wood chip, guess whos pays that? the poor old general public ?

No that isn’t but farms with compost sites turning local waste into a nutrient, then spreading on the land is, as is a farm with a biomass boiler using its straw to heat its buildings. There’s very little road miles involved with each.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

And it’s not just the fact that the wood chip is coming from Louisiana, as that is just the port. Think of all the different diesel powered machines involved in the harvest and processing of it, not to mention that I was told it’s a full days truck ride from the forested areas to the port !!

It's harvested in North Carolina!

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

I'd rather cut my own genitals off with a rusty spoon and rub the stump on James Cordens salty, post-marathon, sweaty man-boobs than lady my writing talent to that insideous bog-roll of veiled Beta micro-aggression.

So that's a no then?

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

As I understand it Drax (and other biomass power stations) are allowed under the rules to ignore the carbon emitted because it comes from a renewable source "so doesn't count". Also any emissions created in the fuel supply before it reaches the UK are counted against the country of origin, not the UK. These seemingly crazy rules are how Drax counts as zero emissions renewable energy and qualifies for the huge subsidy it attracts.

 

[Happy hillbily]

There’s a company in France electrifying old cars...

There's one in Newtown, called Electric classic cars, done a TV programme on them called 'Vintage Voltage'. Will restore and convert any classic car to electric. Seen them with a converted Ferrari, Landrover 110 and a fiat 500 and many more.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Twisted Performance do a complete electric conversion package for LR Defenders (and can, I believe, fit it to Discoveries and RR's as well).

There are several other companies in the UK doing conversions of various vehicles too.

 

[Doing it for the kids]

so on the basis that pretty much all, cars do way more than 120k miles in their lifetime these days ( 3 times that is not unusual) the quote was agreeing that the EV was greener ?

EV's get greener everyday as more renewable power comes on stream


mining of minerals for batteries isn't as black and white as some sensationalize either as the material value will mean these things are never thrown away, they will be recycled over and over


But yes - I drive an EV because it saved me money - not to save the planet !

and the acceleration!?

Until National Grid / electricity supply companies put separate power lines for green electricity around the country, eco electricity is a con , because at the moment all electricity however it’s produced comes to our homes and businesses along the same cable.

I remember being taught this at school.

the national grid is a swimming pool. The customers suck the water out, the suppliers via coal / gas / PV top the pool back up.

no one knows which hose their water comes from As they extract it. I’m not sure many actually care In reality!

 

[DaveGrohl]

As I understand it Drax (and other biomass power stations) are allowed under the rules to ignore the carbon emitted because it comes from a renewable source "so doesn't count". Also any emissions created in the fuel supply before it reaches the UK are counted against the country of origin, not the UK. These seemingly crazy rules are how Drax counts as zero emissions renewable energy and qualifies for the huge subsidy it attracts.

That's quite a fekked up set of rules right there isn't it? It'd be ridiculous before any subsidy got involved never mind after. Whilst I'm not as anti wood burning per se as some on here, this is breathtaking.

 

[DaveGrohl]

and the acceleration!?



I remember being taught this at school.

the national grid is a swimming pool. The customers suck the water out, the suppliers via coal / gas / PV top the pool back up.

no one knows which hose their water comes from As they extract it. I’m not sure many actually care In reality!

Indeed, it's what is put in that's crucial. People are basically buying water from the companies putting water/gin/vodka/ deuterium/effluent in, not what's coming out.