Is it worth lambing early anymore

[exmoor dave]

Are these big units owned or tenanted? Very few farms tenanted in Wales. The problem here is that the bigger you get the more inefficient you are because it's practically impossible to get extra land that's adjoining so you end up spending too much time travelling and moving stock about. I'd give anything to have all the land we farm in one block. The cost of fuel and wear and tear on vehicles and machinery is eye watering. I've now come to the conclusion that less is more and am getting rid of off lying land, sheep tack and short term lets unless they're within a couple of miles.

Agree, land fragmentation is going to be quite a limiting factor,
Your area is probably very similar to mine and most stock areas in that very little land comes up, even for rent, lots of medium sized family farms all wanting more land, what does come up is likely to be smallish blocks, then everyone chases it like mad.


There's a whole farm coming up on the estate this year.....first one in probably 30 odd years.......thats going to be a show and a half!

 

[Penmoel]

@neilo , I can believe your nice tight skinned Char lambs will, and do, top the market around easter.

Woolly, 4 month old Dorset cross in April/May do not So dead weight only which does not give much of a premium.

 

[neilo]

I agree but there is no easter trade now, this year was 10pkilo up for 1 week but was up from rock bottom !

I have a friend that lambs a few hundred in December/early January, pedigree Charollais and crosbreds. He reckoned the other night that he had averaged a good bit over £100 for the lot this time (Charollais X and the poorer purebreds). Selling say 180%, that leaves a margin that covers the extra costs IMO. My own have averaged £110 for the 40 cast offs I sold.

If I was to do it again, it would be a sponged mob of ewes drawn from the maiden shearlings & previous year's early flock, with any returns falling back to the April lambing/low input flock. They lamb in a tight mob and stay in until finished, weaning the lambs at 6-8 weeks. Ewes would be weaned out onto hay/straw on turnip fields that had already been grazed by the April lambers, and kept tight thereafter. Rams would obviously be Charollais. Not sure on the Highlanders ability to lamb early, but sponges and teasers should get a decent enough percentage to lamb in December.

 

[neilo]

@neilo , I can believe your nice tight skinned Char lambs will, and do, top the market around easter.

Woolly, 4 month old Dorset cross in April/May do not So dead weight only which does not give much of a premium.

I wouldn't be using Dorset blood for that reason, they've always made sponges look cheap IMO. I'd also aim to have nowt but a few tailenders left in May, by lambing before Jan/Feb, using high index rams, and pushing them on feed.

 

[andybk]

@neilo , I can believe your nice tight skinned Char lambs will, and do, top the market around easter.

Woolly, 4 month old Dorset cross in April/May do not So dead weight only which does not give much of a premium.

thats why you put a charollais over the dorset and get the best of both worlds a hardy milky mum with umph from the charollais with a short tight coat like a southdown , it beats me why the dorset breeders insist on sell the merits of their rams as terminals when the ewes are hard to get hold of , promote the ewes more and this will in turn increase ram sales

 

[Six Dogs]

I have a friend that lambs a few hundred in December/early January, pedigree Charollais and crosbreds. He reckoned the other night that he had averaged a good bit over £100 for the lot this time (Charollais X and the poorer purebreds). Selling say 180%, that leaves a margin that covers the extra costs IMO. My own have averaged £110 for the 40 cast offs I sold.

If I was to do it again, it would be a sponged mob of ewes drawn from the maiden shearlings & previous year's early flock, with any returns falling back to the April lambing/low input flock. They lamb in a tight mob and stay in until finished, weaning the lambs at 6-8 weeks. Ewes would be weaned out onto hay/straw on turnip fields that had already been grazed by the April lambers, and kept tight thereafter. Rams would obviously be Charollais. Not sure on the Highlanders ability to lamb early, but sponges and teasers should get a decent enough percentage to lamb in December.

That's kinda of what we are doing but although an extra cost we have found a Regulin implant really boosts the conception rate

 

[liammogs]

I seen a guy on tv, lambed all his broken mouthed draft ewes early, he said though its high cost, atm the high value cull ewes are what makes it pay

 

[neilo]

I seen a guy on tv, lambed all his broken mouthed draft ewes early, he said though its high cost, atm the high value cull ewes are what makes it pay

That's certainly another plus point for the system. Cull ewes and lambs go out at the top of the market and Cash comes in from lamb sales soon after feed bills have to be paid.

 

[hindmaist]

Plus.....you don't have to spend Xmas day with the inlaws.

 

[neilo]

Plus.....you don't have to spend Xmas day with the inlaws.

If you sponge the ewes to be done before then, you can still have that pleasure. I stopped lambing returns over Christmas many years ago, when my son was born. I still always did Xmas afternoon milking before I left home, as 3 o'clock was plenty long enough to be stuck in a house...

 

[Y Fan Wen]

I agree but I don't know if the bigger ewes could live on the hills without a fair bit of winter feeding. There's already only a fraction of the numbers of sheep that used to be kept on the hills.

I took the enviro shilling and carved a big chunk off the flock. Next year the performance jumped up as I expected. Subsequent years it has gradually deteriorated as the land 'rewilds' and the tick burden increases. Ewe size and performance has increased a lot since the 50s, which is the earliest I remember, but still below potential. One effect that I wasn't expecting is that ewe mortality has dropped right away, presumably because they are under less stocking stress.

 

[hindmaist]

A sheeps worst enemy and all that.

 

[RedMerle]

Both, tenants get next door added on if anyone packs up to make thm bigger they dont seem to want new tenants, owned dont get bigger because forestry out bid us all and the farms that do come up are to big ie 1-2k acre never ever any small bits ever, try out bidding forestry for shitty hill land that carrys shitty blackies they go to and sometimes over 3k acre and we talking hill land here cant drive a tracotor or anythng on it. as i say price of land limits us becoming nz nothing else.

Sean where I was. Every time a farmer comes out the house is leased to someone wanting a pony paddock and then the land to the neighbouring farms. There's folk sitting on thousands of acres yet the wee man can't even get a start on 25

 

[John Chance]

Late: to miss the main Schmallenberg risk window?

 

[andybk]

Late: to miss the main Schmallenberg risk window?

my thoughts exactly , with the younger stock that hasnt been exposed previously ,

 

[neilo]

Late: to miss the main Schmallenberg risk window?

That would depend on your part of the country and when SBV infected midges are about (if at all), which could vary every year.

Here, for the last two episodes of SBV anyway, it seems to have been mostly January lambers that have been affected. Lambing in .December and March /April, I haven't seen a single in case (yet). Further South, December lambing flocks have been affected badly.
Another year might be completely different though.

 

[Lovegoodstock]

In bucks/ oxon only heard of one case in dec and one in jan, but that's my immediate area. Extra cost? More grass for feb lambers than ewe lambs in april. Only sold 25 but 50 odd sadly on dead/ weight tues, they will come to a couple of quid average of 100. Cant see you want more than that with no extra input, and that's the supposed inbetween time of lambing, use area, breed, conditions to your advantage. They will be up for next two weeks surely? So get rid of another 250 at that money, sets up the average at least?

 

[Grassman]

Numbers game post subs.

I have been talking to a farmer in NZ, they run 1400 grazing cattle and lamb 3500 ewes ( 150% ) with just the manager/ retired owner and one farm worker and that includes at lambing time, sheep are left to get on with it and in her words, if they live they live if they die they die..

To be realistic if they sell 150% lambs per ewe put to the tup over 3500 ewes the welfare can't be that bad!

 

[M-J-G]

To be realistic if they sell 150% lambs per ewe put to the tup over 3500 ewes the welfare can't be that bad!

Precisely, I've spoken to several from NZ who have visited the UK and said that there were more welfare issues here with keeping old decrepit ewes and cows for years with buggered feet and bad udders than would be allowed to occur in NZ.

Some in the UK pride themselves in being great at looking after sick animals and how good they are at putting themselves out to make a long shot case work out, many don't seem to consider breeding or managing to reduce the need for such a penance.

As for those who think the job being easier in NZ....... oh yes of course it is us Brits have it so tough, everyone else has it so easy.... change the fu*kin tune.

Martyrdom commands no respect.

 

[sheep&cows&stuff]

fat lambs making £108 in tyrone last night - best prices in 3 or 4 years