Is Red tractor detrimental to your mental health

[NFI]

Had my visit yesterday. Even the vet who was here the day before to do the flock health plan asked why I bother. I bother because I feel that there should be something in place to help farmer/consumer relations. But half those boxes shouldn't need ticking surely, this is what makes it a joke. Now I've got 5 n/c's to sort before I forget.
Stressful?
Of course it is.

 

[slackjawedyokel]

I’ve asked this before and I’ll ask it again. What product complies with the standard:

“If livestock buildings are intended for use as crop storage or temporary holding facilities they must be thoroughly cleaned, power washed and sanitised with a combined food grade detergent/disinfectant and left to dry before use.”?

Im not sure there is any product on the market that complies with this standard. That doesn’t half increase the stress of an inspection!

 

[Tim G]

I’ve asked this before and I’ll ask it again. What product complies with the standard:

“If livestock buildings are intended for use as crop storage or temporary holding facilities they must be thoroughly cleaned, power washed and sanitised with a combined food grade detergent/disinfectant and left to dry before use.”?

Im not sure there is any product on the market that complies with this standard. That doesn’t half increase the stress of an inspection!

I wouldn't be too sure there is a product either. Detergents are usually alkaline and sanitisers are acids I thought? When I wash my milking parlour pipework out detergents and sanitisers are two separate cycles.

 

[slackjawedyokel]

I wouldn't be too sure there is a product either. Detergents are usually alkaline and sanitisers are acids I thought? When I wash my milking parlour pipework out detergents and sanitisers are two separate cycles.

I’ve tried that in the past -“Here’s my A.N.Other agri-detergent which I rinse off and use THIS food-grade-sanitiser”
UH-URRRRR; computer says no- that’s not compliant with the standards

I have, in the past, asked the inspector, asked the certifying body and asked RT to tell me a product (or ideally a list of products) that are compliant with this standard and none have done so.

 

[DRC]

If you are busy, tell them you have Covid or something. I wouldn’t let them near at harvest time .

 

[Nearly]

Not RT, but some years ago, I had a phone call at 4.30pm from a civil servant whose Organisation will remain confidential, who informed me that, He would be calling to see me at 10am the following morning...

I suggested he start off on his journey there and then if he wanted to catchup with me, as I was in Madeira at the time.... He demanded to know when I would be available, and I added 5 days from my return to check over everything.... Sorted.

Friend was once given 5 days notice for a cattle eartag check on 27th Dec, 'But we only need give you 3 days by law'.
'See you on the 25th then, I'm busy next week'
'Er no. Have I to ring back later in January?'

I'm here on this thread because I've just agreed a private sale of some barley to a local rebel.
Red Trattor avoided for another 12 months!

 

[Tim G]

I’ve tried that in the past -“Here’s my A.N.Other agri-detergent which I rinse off and use THIS food-grade-sanitiser”
UH-URRRRR; computer says no- that’s not compliant with the standards

I have, in the past, asked the inspector, asked the certifying body and asked RT to tell me a product (or ideally a list of products) that are compliant with this standard and none have done so.

I suppose the way to find out is to look which cleaning product company has representation on the red tractor board.

 

[roscoe erf]

Every other industry is regulated... construction/factory/roadbuilding/banking/pharmaceuticals/healthcare



QC .... Quality Control.....It's the way of the 21st world nowadays

Red tractor isn’t a regulator

 

[slackjawedyokel]

Iva already posted this on a different thread today.

As time goes on, and the list of rules mount, the thing I’m finding most corrosive to my mental health about RT is this:
I have young kids, and I have a farm to run. I love my family and I want to spend as much time as I can with them. I recognise that time is precious. This year, I had to spend at least a week in the office filling out and making up (policies etc) paperwork which is basically meaningless to me and which is on top of what is legally required. It’s jumping through hoops to tick boxes and has zero value to me, other than allowing me to carry on trading.

I resent this massively. I would far rather have a week spending time with my family building good memories rather than not having time for them. I’m usually on a fairly even keel, but this nonsense really knots my stomach and makes me question how long I want to remain in this business, putting up with having to keep my fingers crossed that I’m not put out of business by one pettifogging rule or another.

I don’t imagine that many employed people would put up with being told that they have to do an extra weeks worth of work a year in their own time and that they would be charged several hundred pounds for the privilege of doing so. Why should I?

 

[tullah]

I’m fairly sure RT are reading this, just had a text wanting to do my arable inspection

Bg

Much better to be anonymous

 

[robs1]

I’m fairly sure RT are reading this, just had a text wanting to do my arable inspection

Bg

Doubt they will turn up, I had to put my inspection off as I had to suddenly go into hospital for a major op, the guy who does line was fine about it and checked with me a month later but I was still in hospital. Around a month after I had a text saying my inspection would be in two days time, I was back home but certainly in no fit state to do it so just ignored the text and no one turned up, I already had my stickers so didnt care

 

[ollie989898]

Difference is that healthcare is not allowed to sell imported tickbox rubbish.

Regulation in Healthcare is a little contrived in some areas but is largely logical.

 

[robs1]

Not required of grain imports. And NFU are going to do nothing about it. Why? Because they own Red Tractor!

And check out imported meat QA. Fraction of RT rules, yet sit on same supermarket shelf.

Then there's failed RT grain in a central store, mixed with a few thousand other tonnes. Surely the QA scheme will now mark down the whole bulk as non-assured won't it? No it doesn't, because that's too expensive! So, now, how good is this QA which is the way of the world?

I'm not sure which central store you are talking about but trinity grain you have to supply your ticket with every load or it wont be tipped I'm sure all "proper" central stores are the same

 

[slackjawedyokel]

Hmmmm… I wonder whether the next revision of the RT rules will have a requirement to achieve a particular threshold score on a mental health test, which will be provided by third-party companies for a fee…

 

[Nearly]

Hmmmm… I wonder whether the next revision of the RT rules will have a requirement to achieve a particular threshold score on a mental health test, which will be provided by third-party companies for a fee…

Above or below the threshold?

 

[Grass And Grain]

Got a friend in Scotland who’s successfully sold none assured milling wheat for the spot market price. He put it down to the huge cock up of Scottish assurance currently happening and the buyers are desperate. 406t.

Wants a whole new thread starting about this. If they'll purchase non-assured when they can't get hold of assured, then makes me wonder why any of us bother.

Iva already posted this on a different thread today.

As time goes on, and the list of rules mount, the thing I’m finding most corrosive to my mental health about RT is this:
I have young kids, and I have a farm to run. I love my family and I want to spend as much time as I can with them. I recognise that time is precious. This year, I had to spend at least a week in the office filling out and making up (policies etc) paperwork which is basically meaningless to me and which is on top of what is legally required. It’s jumping through hoops to tick boxes and has zero value to me, other than allowing me to carry on trading.

I resent this massively. I would far rather have a week spending time with my family building good memories rather than not having time for them. I’m usually on a fairly even keel, but this nonsense really knots my stomach and makes me question how long I want to remain in this business, putting up with having to keep my fingers crossed that I’m not put out of business by one pettifogging rule or another.

I don’t imagine that many employed people would put up with being told that they have to do an extra weeks worth of work a year in their own time and that they would be charged several hundred pounds for the privilege of doing so. Why should I?

Could do with some oilseed rape in the rotation next year, but I can probably shift my barley and wheat farm to farm without Dead Tractor (DT).

So will probably not bother with the OSR, and bin off DT. Shame the OSR won't get grown, but that's what happens if those who control our industry make us be DT assured, but allow imports in without DT.

 

[ollie989898]

Hmmmm… I wonder whether the next revision of the RT rules will have a requirement to achieve a particular threshold score on a mental health test, which will be provided by third-party companies for a fee…

Nah nah nah, I've already contacted RT with a suggested revision- all they need to do is add a section on 'coping strategies'. I'll outline these below:

Please indicate the coping strategies you employ that enable you to complete your red tractor application and remain an assured farm business. Tick any or all of the following that apply:

1. I consume lager, cider or bitter up to 24 units/day - point score of 5.
2. I consume lager, cider or bitter beyond 24 units/day- point score 10.
3. I consume wine, spirits or other- point score 15.
4. I am an avid pornography user- point score of 5.
5. I am taking prescribed medication by healthcare professional- point score of 5.
6. I am using unprescribed medicines or narcotics (including recreational ivermectin)- point score of 15.
7. I have a workshop/tool addiction- point score of 5.
8. I have a fleet of JCBs- point score of 20.
9. I don't even know what day of the week it is- point score of 15.
10. 'Tractor go broom broom'- point score of 25.
11. I keep sheep and enjoy it- point score of 50.
12. I can't help but spent money on tat at farm sales- point score of 100.

You must maintain a point score of 10 or less to comply.

 

[Grass And Grain]

I'm not sure which central store you are talking about but trinity grain you have to supply your ticket with every load or it wont be tipped I'm sure all "proper" central stores are the same

What I mean is this...

1 in 14 fail RT audit. That's not a small non-conformance, but a serious fail (or what RT call a critical fail), something like sprayer out of test.

So farmer sends grain to co-op store at harvest. Farmer gets inspection in September and fails.. Remember, 1 in 14 fail, so on average that's a lot of failed grain now in the co-op store.

Everyone knows there's now some non-assured grain mixed up in a massive 5,000t heap. Farmer probably sent in a load a day for 10 days, so it's mixed up hand over fist. RT know, UK Flour Millers know, the farmer knows, the NFU know, AHDB know.

You can't correct a food safety non-conformance retrospectively. Once grain was sprayed with out of test sprayer you can't correct that. You can't correct tipping in a livestock shed and not disinfecting. etc.

It would be misdescription of goods to sell any of that heap as RT, because there's some failed wheat on the heap.

Now what happens? Everyone ignores it. Why? Because it's too expensive to 'downgrade' the whole heap as non-assured.

If I store my grain in my own shed, and then fail RT audit, I can't expect to sell that grain as RT. That's only right. No arguments.

Co-op central store? It all gets sold out as RT, with a nice RT logo on the packaging.

So this marvelous QA scheme isn't looking quite so good now.

 

[Cowabunga]

What I mean is this...

1 in 14 fail RT audit. That's not a small non-conformance, but a serious fail (or what RT call a critical fail), something like sprayer out of test.

WTF does it matter if a sprayer is out of test as long as it works and sprays accurately. Even with the test ‘they’ have no way of knowing whether the operator could give a shite while doing his work. Spraying has been done perfectly well for half a century before testing was introduced. I started off with a Vizol with brass nozzles which held about 25 gallons in total.

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

WTF does it matter if a sprayer is out of test as long as it works and sprays accurately. Even with the test ‘they’ have no way of knowing whether the operator could give a shite while doing his work. Spraying has been done perfectly well for half a century before testing was introduced. I started off with a Vizol with brass nozzles which held about 25 gallons in total.

It's very unlikely to be legally out of test because that's only every 3 years.