John Deere 2650 Clutch Master Cylinder

[britcivic]

So, 4wd now working fine, but still have a very clunky gear change most of the time- occasionally its nice and smooth, so I'm hoping it's the master cylinder.

Have bled it from the nipple, and backwards by pushing fluid in the nipple, not made much difference - so looking at changing the master cylinder or the seals.....

The question is what is the difference between an early type master cylinder and the later type, and how do I tell which one I've got?

Not convinced this is the original cylinder that's on it, so don't want to buy a seal kit for the newer type and then find out mine is the old type!

 

[Rs chunk]

Is your cylinder wet and weeping? I think you might be better replacing the complete cylinder rather than new seals. They are a pain too bleed I just put a new clutch in my 2140 and back bled it but the bite point was very low but after a week the trapped air made its way and now it’s perfect

 

[Tractortech]

Now Then..
Let's have a picture of it for a start while I think waaaaaaaaay back..
You say "clunky",,,, is that the same as feeling each gear grind into place as it were??
Does the clutch pedal feel right, or is there travel on it before resistance is felt?? Did you get air bubbles in the reservoir and the fluid filled up while bleeding??

 

[britcivic]

No grinds, except for high low and reverse if there's rev on . No leaks on the master cylinder. Bite point is high, pedal feels the same through the travel. I can hear the springs in the clutch moving when I press the pedal by hand.

Got a few bubbles out at first when bleeding, emptied the reservoir by bleeding through the bleed nipple and pumping the pedal, then pushed fluid back in the bleed nipple till it reached the top mark.

Sometimes the shift is nice and smooth, but most of the time have to play around to clunk it into gear from neutral, is ok shifting between the gears afterwards, but clunky rather than smooth.

waaaaay back - this is the newest tractor on the farm as a 1993 L plate!! - bit frustrating that the D reg 2850 drives way better.....

 

[britcivic]

 

[Rs chunk]

No grinds, except for high low and reverse if there's rev on . No leaks on the master cylinder. Bite point is high, pedal feels the same through the travel. I can hear the springs in the clutch moving when I press the pedal by hand.

Got a few bubbles out at first when bleeding, emptied the reservoir by bleeding through the bleed nipple and pumping the pedal, then pushed fluid back in the bleed nipple till it reached the top mark.

Sometimes the shift is nice and smooth, but most of the time have to play around to clunk it into gear from neutral, is ok shifting between the gears afterwards, but clunky rather than smooth.

waaaaay back - this is the newest tractor on the farm as a 1993 L plate!! - bit frustrating that the D reg 2850 drives way better.....

How old is the clutch in the tractor? I bought my 2140 over 10 years ago and clutch was always heavy and dragged slightly and gear shift was a bit notchy. It’s only a few months back I needed to fit a new ring gear on flywheel and had a look at clutch and it was down to the rivets and also where the thrust bearing pushes against was worn. So fitted a new clutch now pedal is light and gear shift is really good.

 

[britcivic]

Tractor is new to me, so not sure, clutch could be 1993 vintage, - I was hoping that it was master cylinder - mainly because its easier and cheaper than the clutch....probably I should split it and have a look before I invest in a master cylinder....is there a good way to prove which part is causing the problem before going down one route and finding out you didn't need to?

 

[njneer]

If your pedal has even pressure from top to bottom when pressing and the bite point is high then bleeding or changing the cylinder orobably won’t improve it , as it’s a hydraulic master and slave cylinder by its design it is self adjusting so your issue is probably a combination of wear in the clutch plate causing high bite point and wear in the thrust bearing or clutch cover causing clutch not to clear properly causing slight drag and notchy gears
Not a big job to split them , take any weights off as they are very finely balanced when supporting under the sump.

 

[britcivic]

Well mine fits that description bang on. Anyone used sideshift on a forklift to do the splitting?

 

[njneer]

Well mine fits that description bang on. Anyone used sideshift on a forklift to do the splitting?

Wont split it far enough .
Trolley Jack if you don’t have rails . Not ideal as far as splitting perfectly straight but gets it done .

 

[britcivic]

Since the gears aren't grinding am I doing any damage by using it as it is....... do I risk scoring the flywheel?

 

[Tractortech]

The flywheel will need resurfacing when you put a new clutch in it anyway. It's not a big job to replace the clutch in the scheme of things, the extra fuel tank creates a much work as anything. Split it when the fuel level is low (which due to the fuel gauge reliability is a bit guesswork)..
I fit 2 adjustable legs to the back of the engine and pull the transmission/cab away on a trolley jack.

 

[biggles]

A new flywheel is only about £200 from nick young and has anew ring gear as well, I went this route as it meant having all the parts so in and out in the same day.

 

[bravheart]

Things to check before splitting.

When they say back bleeding from what I remember it should be from the bleed nipple on the slave cylinder up to the reservoir.
Cant quite remember now but there was also a problem with the cross shaft in the clutch. It was tight and either hadn't been greased or had grease nipples added to the ends which helped a bit but was always a heavy clutch.
There was also a bit of adjustment on the rod in the master cylinder check someone hasn't maxed it out to try and alter the bite point.

 

[Tractortech]

The OP has described that he filled the reservoir from the bleed nipple.
The cross shaft issues were in early 40 series tractors. Later models had grease nipples from the factory, early ones were dealer modified.
The 50 series tractors with SG2 have an annular cylinder inside the clutch housing and no shaft.
There is an adjustment procedure for the master cylinder.

 

[bravheart]

The OP has described that he filled the reservoir from the bleed nipple.
The cross shaft issues were in early 40 series tractors. Later models had grease nipples from the factory, early ones were dealer modified.
The 50 series tractors with SG2 have an annular cylinder inside the clutch housing and no shaft.
There is an adjustment procedure for the master cylinder.

Ok it was a while ago and had both 40 and 50 series[emoji26]

Is the slave cylinder internal then on the 50s? can definately remember fluid getting pumped up from underneath somewhere

 

[Tractortech]

Yes, definitely internal on a 50 series.

 

[Rs chunk]

Does the 50 series have the valve on top of transmission that stops you shifting the splitter while clutch is down? As you had to push the fluid from the nipple on it

 

[Tractortech]

Does the 50 series have the valve on top of transmission that stops you shifting the splitter while clutch is down? As you had to push the fluid from the nipple on it

Only the very early 50 series up to S/N603132had the Hi-Lo interlock piston on the shift cover. Such a tractor would have it's clutch bled from there..

 

[robbiegriff]

Now Then..
Let's have a picture of it for a start while I think waaaaaaaaay back..
You say "clunky",,,, is that the same as feeling each gear grind into place as it were??
Does the clutch pedal feel right, or is there travel on it before resistance is felt?? Did you get air bubbles in the reservoir and the fluid filled up while bleeding??

Hi, the gears on my 2650 are very crunchy and sometimes the tractor will move forward/backwards while my foot is fully depressed on the clutch!
If I pump it half a dozen times it improves and comes to a halt.
Very little resistance on the clutch till I depress half way.
Any advice would be most welcome, thank you in advance.