John Deere 5100M fuel problem.

[ricky_rascal]

Bought a 15 plate ex demo JD 5100M (and loader) with 250hrs on nearly 2 years ago. All went well until last winter when we got some frosts. Started to light an error on dashboard which turned out to be fuel low pressure. It eventually stopped and couldn't get it going again. Dealer came out and changed filters but had issues getting fuel up out the tank. Lifted the floor mat and opened an access flap to top of tank. There are two fuel pipes run past the flap to somewhere on the tank. Mech was expecting to find an opening in top of tank where pipes went in and tank level sender. One pipe has a one way valve on it and if undo jubilee clips, turn round one way valve and attach to tank side pipe. Attach a clean pipe to other end then blow down it which seems to clear the 'filter' in bottom of tank. Put all back together and away it goes. Once engine has been run for some time and fuel has warmed prob seems to go away. Of course most of the year it's not an issue.

I am using clean fresh fuel never ordering more than I can't use in 3 months and tractor does six to seven hundred hours a year. I've been adding Stanadyne on someone's recommendation at recommended rate. Tractor was about 17 months old when I bought it and only done 250 hrs. Is it possible that as it will have done a lot of standing about it could have got diesel going stale in the tank and grown a bit of fungus (or whatever)? Seems when the temps drop below freezing for a day or two I get the problem. Anyone happen to know if it's possible to access the tank sender unit (and probably fuel and return pipe) without taking the tank off? If it had been under the access flap in floor of cab like its bigger sisters we could have undone and removed from tank and got at the pesky filter on end of pipe. I've as a precaution just changed the fuel filters either side of engine and both were as clean as the day they went on and water trap is always clean (no water). As we don't get sustained frost much these days it's not a regular problem but a right ball ache when it is frosty enough. There has been same model nearly next door and on his second now. Neither had any problems with fuel and he uses same fuel from same supplier though is less fussy about fuel hygiene!!

Going to see dealer this week with a view to sorting it under warranty. I got full 2 year warranty from the day I bought it even though it wasn't brand new.

I had a Landini Powerfarm 105 before the John Deere and in spite of a few locally saying why had I bought that rubbish and it'll be no end of bother, in five years it never had a spanner on it. I swapped it for the John Deere and self same people said ''What you bought that for - it won't be as reliable as the Landini'' - Seems you can't win whatever you buy!

 

[manfromhill]

If it’s under warranty get them to sort it
How many hours has it done since you got it

 

[ricky_rascal]

It's done just over 1200hrs now. As it's still under warranty for a couple of months the dealer can service it again and I'll ask them to have a look at filter at bottom of fuel pipe. Not really sure why it needs a filter there more so as not accessible without possibly taking the tank off.

 

[ns_sheep]

Don't know what kind of temperatures you are getting but it almost sounds like fuel gelling or freezing . Really common over here if there isn't enough winter fuel in the tank. Usually get a fuel pressure code due to lack of flow, ice crystals usually build up and plug the filters.

 

[Bobthebuilder]

might be the crap fuel hose that JD use, it goes porous and draws air into system or lets fuel back to tank if sitting for a while

 

[ricky_rascal]

It's been frosty of late but like last night was -3c so hardly Arctic weather. It's been a pig this morning. Just cuts out as if out of fuel which is kind of what happens. Fuel looks clear and changed filters other day which looked very clean after nearly 500hrs. Anyway, blow down fuel pipe under cab floor which seems to clear what I assume is a filter or strainer then reconnect. Open bleed screw on second filter and crank until it starts and shut bleed screw. To be honest there is plenty of fuel being pumped out the bleed screw. Runs for a while then stops - rinse and repeat. Only does it in frosty weather. Last batch of fuel delivered just before Christmas from reputable supplier.

Taking more notice of top of fuel tank through cab floor and the fuel sender is accessible on top of tank but the pipes carry on and disappear down transmission side of the tank. Have a word with dealer tomorrow but no doubt they busy getting ready to go to YAMS!

 

[Sharpy]

Is there a drain bung in the bottom of the tank? If so drain the tank once the fuel level is low and see what comes out.

 

[McCormick494]

Had similar problems with a 5090r turned out to be some of the fuel lines went porous and were drawing air managed to replace every line and no problems ever since. As @Bobthebuilder says it’s a common fault .

 

[ricky_rascal]

Is there a drain bung in the bottom of the tank? If so drain the tank once the fuel level is low and see what comes out.

Think there probably is a bung so would be worth a try..

Had similar problems with a 5090r turned out to be some of the fuel lines went porous and were drawing air managed to replace every line and no problems ever since. As @Bobthebuilder says it’s a common fault .

It runs fine all year up until we get frosty weather. If fuel lines were porous then I'd expect it to be a regular problem? I have winter grade or at least recently delivered fuel so the issue isn't waxing. Taken a sample out the tractor fuel tank and caught some out the bleed screw on the 2nd filter and the diesel is clear. Main filters aren't blocking anyway which they would if the fuel was waxing.

Related to this - wonder why the first filter housing has a bleed screw when first filter is between lift pump and fuel tank? Guess it's to catch newbies out To be fair the first time I changed filters I opened the bleed screw and was pumping away on lift pump when I realised my error

 

[Drillman]

Don’t think it will be the diesel waxing.

It’s colder on top of the hill than down with you and I’m having no problems getting stuff to run and still on summer diesel.

That includes the Genny for the drier which starts and runs no bother despite been in an exposed part of the yard.

 

[milkloss]

Have you tried getting a good and powerful led flashlight and peering in the tank. It’s surprising what you can see through the diesel, the odd washer, straw to whatever. I suspect you have a little lump of organic matter Of some sort that is congealing with moisture made worse in the cold.

 

[Tractortech]

Now Then..
I had 5 minutes to spare earlier so I looked at Parts Advisor and Service Advisor. I soon found out that the fuel leaves the tank via an elbow with a strainer on it in the bottom of the tank towards the front. The tech manual indicates that you need to drain the fuel then remove the elbow from the tank, clean and replace. It doesn't mention tank removal. Why could your dealers man not do this?? It's hardly rocket science!!

 

[Limcrazy]

I had a problem with my 5820 chugging and not getting fuel intermittently. Got it solved eventually by cutting a hole in the side of fuel lift pipe in the tank a little bit up from the end. Might reduce available tank capacity a little but never missed again.

 

[ricky_rascal]

Now Then..
I had 5 minutes to spare earlier so I looked at Parts Advisor and Service Advisor. I soon found out that the fuel leaves the tank via an elbow with a strainer on it in the bottom of the tank towards the front. The tech manual indicates that you need to drain the fuel then remove the elbow from the tank, clean and replace. It doesn't mention tank removal. Why could your dealers man not do this?? It's hardly rocket science!!

Thanks for the info Did it say how you remove the elbow after draining the tank? Going to have a good look with a torch and see if I can see where the pipes enter the tank. Through the hatch in the floor would have been handy

Don’t think it will be the diesel waxing.

It’s colder on top of the hill than down with you and I’m having no problems getting stuff to run and still on summer diesel.

That includes the Genny for the drier which starts and runs no bother despite been in an exposed part of the yard.

No it isn't as the diesel is fresh and even on thurs when it was nearly -8c it remained clear. I was at a fellas in the village who had a merlo that had stopped and he announced that he was still on summer diesel. He'd left it in the sun and tipped an additive in and hoped it would go later. I wasn't as confident!

Anyway, how can it be colder up with you? You are far nearer the sun than we are

Have you tried getting a good and powerful led flashlight and peering in the tank. It’s surprising what you can see through the diesel, the odd washer, straw to whatever. I suspect you have a little lump of organic matter Of some sort that is congealing with moisture made worse in the cold.

I'm sure there is something in there. Neighbour has same tractor and it has no problems with the cold. Have shone a light in the tank but only looking for waxing. As tank drains I'll see if I can see anything. Don't know why I am fannying about as the blasted dealer should sort it.

I had a problem with my 5820 chugging and not getting fuel intermittently. Got it solved eventually by cutting a hole in the side of fuel lift pipe in the tank a little bit up from the end. Might reduce available tank capacity a little but never missed again.

Comes down to same thing - getting access to the pipe.

I was about ready to set fire to it yesterday, claim the insurance and go buy Fergie or more reliable (than JD) Landini

 

[Tractortech]

Now Then..
Don't be too hasty with the Ol' Swan Vestas..
Looking at the diagrams it looks like the elbow pushes through a grommet in the bottom / side of the tank. I'm out of the workshop today or would have looked under one of 5R tractors we have as I assume they're the same, eh..
I'll look tomorrow.

 

[ricky_rascal]

Now Then..
Don't be too hasty with the Ol' Swan Vestas..
Looking at the diagrams it looks like the elbow pushes through a grommet in the bottom / side of the tank. I'm out of the workshop today or would have looked under one of 5R tractors we have as I assume they're the same, eh..
I'll look tomorrow.

Don't worry, it got a stay of execution yesterday as weather was warmer and only lit the warning light twice whilst ticking over and engine never stopped due to fuel starvation. The warning light I don't know for sure it's 'low fuel pressure' but the symptoms are the same as cold weather last winter when dealer mechanic had laptop plugged in. Warning light comes on when ticking over rather then when engine is running faster at work. Presume this will be due to mechanical lift pump running slower? I'll say again it's never happens in warm weather.

Had a look with a torch from behind tractor down side of fuel tank. Pipes go down side out of sight and was going to get under for a look but never got round to it yesterday.

Let me know what you find and how to get at said elbow please

 

[Drillman]

@ricky_rascal if it’s any consolation my electric pump on the diesel tank is on a go slow after the cold weather. I think the filters need changing again!

Only plays up after it’s been cold and know the diesel has addative in that tank as I put it in myself

 

[TripleSix]

Having terrible trouble with our mx135 in this cold weather, spluttering and missing, even this morning when it hasn't been so cold.

It's got additive in the tank, and a gallon of petrol, gonna throw some new filters on this arvo

 

[Tractortech]

Don't worry, it got a stay of execution yesterday as weather was warmer and only lit the warning light twice whilst ticking over and engine never stopped due to fuel starvation. The warning light I don't know for sure it's 'low fuel pressure' but the symptoms are the same as cold weather last winter when dealer mechanic had laptop plugged in. Warning light comes on when ticking over rather then when engine is running faster at work. Presume this will be due to mechanical lift pump running slower? I'll say again it's never happens in warm weather.

Had a look with a torch from behind tractor down side of fuel tank. Pipes go down side out of sight and was going to get under for a look but never got round to it yesterday.

Let me know what you find and how to get at said elbow please

Can you not read the fault codes from the dash panel yourself??

 

[ricky_rascal]

Can you not read the fault codes from the dash panel yourself??

No, you need to plug a laptop in. It beeps and then lights an engine warning light. No number display to give you a clue what might be wrong. Should matters become worse then it'll beep again though with this fault it either keeps going and clears the light or the engine stops. Stop engine and restart and warning light goes away. As things are warmed up I've had no problems today It's a good enough tractor for what it is. A bit light on doing loader work but so long as you keep this in mind. 100hp which is mostly fine but 10ton of straw or whatever on our up and down roads can be hard work.

On that subject, what is the difference between a 5100M and a 5115M. Of course 15hp and the latter will be more expensive. I'm presuming it'll be down to different engine map as believe the engines are the same.