Kinsey seminar

[dontknowanything]

Yes I know that, hence specifying which lab the results were from. I was hoping that some people may be familiar with NRM as it seems a popular choice.

I also have some displacement results from the Kinsey lab on the way, one of which is from the same field as one of the NRM ones. Will be interesting to see how it compares.

 

[Steevo]

I also have some displacement results from the Kinsey lab on the way, one of which is from the same field as one of the NRM ones. Will be interesting to see how it compares.

Will be very interesting.

Based on my samples NRM recommend 65-75 Calcium, and 10-15 Magnesium i think. That's off the top of my head though, i'll check again tomorrow.

 

[Feldspar]

OK, had some results back from Plumbo/NRM. Our heaviest field has come back at Ca 80.6 Mg 11. Agronomist is insistent that gypsum will sort it out, and alleviate the blackgrass problem amongst other things.

Thoughts?

It's difficult to comment as NRM is not Perry but you need to ask yourself why you would want to add more calcium to a soil which already has plenty. Adding more Ca will further tip the balance the wrong way and will further tie up micronutrients and P. OK the SO4 might do something but there are better ways to get this into the soil. What about ammonium sulphate?

 

[York]

Tom,
1. many thanks for organising this seminar.
2. having been in such walls with such a reputed history was just the cream on the cake of the seminar
well done Tom!
I know the way Neal talks and have translated him 3 days arter the GB seminar on the continent. His way of talking is very, very different to what we are used. I only can say that I'm seeing more why he does it as it's one of the best ways to leave people with something in their heads. they will always remember more than from this meetings where you have every 3 min. a other slide with full of graphs.
Admittedly, the 1st day is the most tiresome & challenging. As I do trainings I can tell you that we are often not getting to the next topic besides Ca:Mg ratio before 3 in the afternoon. And it's not because of me but of the audience which still come back with questions. And if you don't understand this bit it's basically useless to get to the rest.

topic of Ca : Mg:
to understand this it took me quite a long time. But the numbers of the lab are high in correlation of what farmers observe & have every day reality in the field.
So I will make it easy with a example, all numbers relate to the lab Kinsey uses, which is also the only I understand:
if you have a 89 : 4 soil
The plants view:you are well above the 68:12 ratio, too high in Ca & too low (plant availability) in Mg.
Physical way:
too high in Ca: generally quickly falling dry in a "drought" situation. Fluffy.
Wow, you say, how can that be. But this soil is as sticky as it could be. When plowed it's like turning bricks.
Ok. solution is that we have a "hidden" tooo high Mg.

The 80+ rule:​

add Ca & Mg = 93​

subtract the "wanted Ca" = 93 - 69 = 24​

I call this the "hidden" Mg = which makes your soil so sticky.​

chemical change:​

for every % Ca you get dowen 1% of this "hidden" Mg will show up.​

Gypsum:
unfortunately all this nice discussion on old BFF has been lost.
Just go down to pure chemistry. Gypsum is CaSO4. Yes, it's pH neutral but once it's spread it will react. Plants will take up Ca & S, mostly S. So what remains?
What most are misinterpreting is: they see the nice crumbliness when gypsum is applied and view this as the only reaction. I only can say from own experience, where farmers & consultants viewed only this crumbliness and as consequence used Gypsum where it shouldn't have been used. This resulted in a major disaster. Some examples:
Low CEC soils: Ca% went up within 12 month from decent to over 80 = no water holding capacity, P, Cu, Zi etc. availability was "gone"
a cattle farmer lost 2/3 of his available K within 13 month
after 3 years a farmer now needs a larger tractor to pull the same implements due.
York-Th.

 

[Old Spot]

York so is your answer elemental sulpur?

 

[York]

York so is your answer elemental sulpur?

Old Spot,

let's call it a "positive S Balance", so a constant "over the direct plant usage" used S, be it from any source, be it S from fertilisers like Mg, N,... or be it Elemental S.
What I mean is that when the rape Crop is removing a certain amount of S with the seed you are not stopping to apply just this amount.
York-Th.

 

[Curiosity]

Can someone help me understand how magnesium makes soil sticky?

The way I understand it, the more tightly clay particles are drawn together, the more clumps they form. So, the clay particles, which have been aggregated together, behave like silt particles, which don't form clods of mud as readily. On the other end of the spectrum, if you have lots of Na or K with little Ca and Mg, then the clay doesn't aggregate into silt-like particles and the result is a smooth, sticky, icky mud.

Wouldn't this be correct? So, why is everyone on about Mg making soil sticky? I would think Mg would loosen the soil, though, not as well as Ca.