Labour lies?

[Hindsight]

You won't be able to provide any evidence for your claim on Mr Farage's backtracking, because there is none. He was not part of that campaign, and never claimed that there would be £350m weekly for the NHS.

The bus showed two separate statements, the minds of others conflated them, very probably as was intended. But - and this is the point in this discussion - neither an explicit nor an implicit promise was made, unlike Mr Corbyn and the student fees.



Mr Corbyn is not very bright - hence his on the record comments in this matter - but you'd be right in attributing Machiavellian traits to John McDonnel, he is pulling the strings across the Labour movement at the moment, both within the party and within Momentum (which is probably the more important of the two in electoral terms).

You have two students and say that there is little point in mentioning their own country's recent history to them... ; next you'll be telling me they will / have studied politics or history... and yet students generally* will often spout on about fascism and allude to the dictatorships of the middle 20th Century when referring to some modern politicians, and many of them couldn't even spell 'fascist'.

*not having a dig at your two unless it is definitely applicable to them

No 'dig' taken - I know what you mean and in general concur with the observation! And your fears are even more founded as younger one has just completed A level Politics and History. Older one completed a Sports Science degree - so aa wishy washy degree I suspect for many on here! But he does bowl a rather fine leg spin ball. And concur Mr McDonnel is intriguing.

 

[dstudent]

Sorry for a late reply, prep'ing a newly cleared 'field' for some sheep...

Right, the quote / point I was going to make to you after reading your first post is contained in your second post. The last part, that I have underlined, is the key and I will be fascinated to know what you can or will make of it other than to be, at the very least, an implicit statement of intent to write off student debts, past and present.

Now, I pay attention to politics pretty closely and I have a fair eye for picking out political lacunae, which most intelligent politicians of all parties will leave for themselves whenever possible. The famous £350m for the NHS during the EU referendum is a case in point; there is no example of a senior Leave figure saying that such a sum would go to the NHS, the inference was taken up by the Remain side and some of the media. But nobody actually said it would happen.

Whereas, in the instance under discussion, Mr Corbyn has said that students, past, present and future will have their debt dealt with by him' I look forward to reading what you will make of that.

with all due respect here @Danllan i don t need to make anything out of that, the all statement is quite clear, let me reiterate, this was a one off interview with JC back in May, taking questions from the public. The question was about student's debts, not students' fees, two different issues. Student Debts was not in the manifesto, he clearly explained why, the rest of the statement is perfectly clear. He clearly discusses the possible avenues they are looking at:and I’m looking at ways that we could reduce that, ameliorate that, lengthen the period of paying it off, or some other means of reducing that debt burden.
The bit you are underlining is a support statement into the motivation guiding his previous point:And I don’t see why those that had the historical misfortune to be at university during the £9,000 period should be burdened excessively compared to those that went before or those that come after. I will deal with it.”

Now it takes a massive select reading and hair splitting to turn all this into him pledging the cancellation of all student debts, especially as he clearly states in regards to student's debts : I don’t have the simple answer for it at this stage – I don’t think anybody would expect me to, because this election was called unexpectedly; we had two weeks to prepare all of this – but I’m very well aware of that problem.

To take 5 words of a statement, taking them out of context, give them some meaning and inference which was not there in the first place and make a case out of them, and kind of conveniently forget the rest, i don t have words for it.
because he said i will deal with it, this means he pledges to cancel the debt?
I mean he just told you how he intends to deal with it. I’m looking at ways that we could reduce that, ameliorate that, lengthen the period of paying it off, or some other means of reducing that debt burden.

Where is the lacunae? there is not inference, there is not hidden meaning, aside from the one you are making
2 months have past since that interview there was not mention of student debts, before and after, and now all of a sudden TM and the rest come up, basically accusing JC voters and especially students to be some fools, lacking in reading in comprehension? How insulting and belittling, i find the all story malicious and right down nasty.

 

[Muck Spreader]

Sorry for a late reply, prep'ing a newly cleared 'field' for some sheep...

Right, the quote / point I was going to make to you after reading your first post is contained in your second post. The last part, that I have underlined, is the key and I will be fascinated to know what you can or will make of it other than to be, at the very least, an implicit statement of intent to write off student debts, past and present.

Now, I pay attention to politics pretty closely and I have a fair eye for picking out political lacunae, which most intelligent politicians of all parties will leave for themselves whenever possible. The famous £350m for the NHS during the EU referendum is a case in point; there is no example of a senior Leave figure saying that such a sum would go to the NHS, the inference was taken up by the Remain side and some of the media. But nobody actually said it would happen.

Whereas, in the instance under discussion, Mr Corbyn has said that students, past, present and future will have their debt dealt with by him' I look forward to reading what you will make of that.

Boris Johnson still publicly stands by the £350 million a week to the NHS he had on the bus. However, I suppose he isn't a serious leave figure.

 

[wanton dwarf]

I understand Farage had to backtrack on that promise publicly., however I will answer the rest tomorrow, sorry a bit tired now

Farage didn't say or do what you have suggested.

If you ARE going to quote something then at least make the effort to find the correct source.

To make it clear Farage never said anything about funding the NHS £350 million.

Your just pushing Propaganda pushed out by left wing extremists ... who incidently also harrassed Farage and his family.

About time the left wing were clipped.

 

[JP1]

Farage didn't say or do what you have suggested.

If you ARE going to quote something then at least make the effort to find the correct source.

To make it clear Farage never said anything about funding the NHS £350 million.

Your just pushing Propaganda pushed out by left wing extremists ... who incidently also harrassed Farage and his family.

About time the left wing were clipped.

http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/26/foota...-he-distanced-himself-from-the-claim-5967094/

 

[dstudent]

Farage didn't say or do what you have suggested.

If you ARE going to quote something then at least make the effort to find the correct source.

To make it clear Farage never said anything about funding the NHS £350 million.

Your just pushing Propaganda pushed out by left wing extremists ... who incidently also harrassed Farage and his family.

About time the left wing were clipped.

Kindly refer to my next posting in answer to @caveman
I m not pushing anything, but this works both ways, as I just proved, it s very easy to accept what we are told if it allignes with ones beliefs.
Everyone is jumping on JC for something he did not say.
I don t like Farage, but I ll be fair to him ( a courtesy that some people here are unwilling to extend to JC) he did not pledge or promise the 350 to the NHS. I might not like what he stands for, but I respect him and his voters, I wont bellitle or insult him, and certainly would not want their wings clipped.
Next

 

[caveman]

Boris Johnson still publicly stands by the £350 million a week to the NHS he had on the bus. However, I suppose he isn't a serious leave figure.

Really?
You mean he's pledged the whole EU sub to the NHS?
He actually says that and its been recorded?
Foolish man

 

[wanton dwarf]

http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/26/foota...-he-distanced-himself-from-the-claim-5967094/

I bet he never said £350 million did he ? and I haven't even listened to the video yet.

 

[dstudent]

Really?
You mean he's pledged the whole EU sub to the NHS?
He actually says that and its been recorded?
Foolish man

Yep
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...labour-leader-uk-prime-minister-a7705026.html
http://metro.co.uk/2017/04/27/boris-johnson-stands-by-350million-vote-leave-bus-message-6600240/

 

[wanton dwarf]

Kindly refer to my next posting in answer to @caveman
I m not pushing anything, but this works both ways, as I just proved, it s very easy to accept what we are told if it allignes with ones beliefs.
Everyone is jumping on JC for something he did not say.
I don t like Farage, but I ll be fair to him ( a courtesy that some people here are unwilling to extend to JC) he did not pledge or promise the 350 to the NHS. I might not like what he stands for, but I respect him and his voters, I wont bellitle or insult him, and certainly would not want their wings clipped.
Next

I quite blatantly hate Labour.

Corbyn was a member of a government which killed 100,000s and made 1,000,000s homeless.

Personally I would like to see the whole Labour cabinet of those times in jail apart from Claire Short and Robin Cook.

 

[caveman]

When quizzed by an audience member on whether the money would be invested in the NHS, Mr Farage reinforced his point.

He said: ‘Do you know what I’d like to do with the £10 billion? I’d like that £10 billion to be spent helping the communities in Britain that the government damaged so badly by opening up the doors to former communist countries.

‘What people need here is schools, hospitals, GPs, that’s what they need.’


SMS

 

[dstudent]

I quite blatantly hate Labour.

Corbyn was a member of a government which killed 100,000s and made 1,000,000s homeless.

Personally I would like to see the whole Labour cabinet of those times in jail apart from Claire Short and Robin Cook.

I m with you there, I m not a Labour supporter, I like JC though I think it s a bit unfair to blame the wars on him though.

 

[Ashtree]

Yep
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...labour-leader-uk-prime-minister-a7705026.html
http://metro.co.uk/2017/04/27/boris-johnson-stands-by-350million-vote-leave-bus-message-6600240/
View attachment 554870

But, but, but, ...... @wanton dwarf has proven beyond all reasonable doubt that the twin vices of greed and lying are characteristics solely of the "left".

Therefore the link you posted has to classified as "fake news".

 

[caveman]

Yep
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...labour-leader-uk-prime-minister-a7705026.html
http://metro.co.uk/2017/04/27/boris-johnson-stands-by-350million-vote-leave-bus-message-6600240/
View attachment 554870

Ah.
So he didn't.
That's cleared that up then.

 

[dstudent]

Ah.
So he didn't.
That's cleared that up then.

I lost you? Who didn t what?

 

[caveman]

I lost you? Who didn t what?

Boris didnt pledge the whole lot to the NHS

 

[caveman]

Challenged over whether he stood by the £350 million claim, Mr Johnson told ITV1’s Good Morning Britain: ‘Of course I do,’ and insisted the figure was ‘not disputed’.


Boris Johnson stands by the claim (Picture: PA)
He described the sum as ‘£350 million a week which we do not currently control which could be spent on our priorities, including the NHS’.

 

[dstudent]

Boris didnt pledge the whole lot to the NHS

No the 350, I thought that was the amount we were discussing
My bad
Did you read my previous response.
May I ask if you think JC promise to cancel the debt?

 

[caveman]

Not even the whole 350.
On JC.
Sorry.
I never took much notice of his comments, promises and pledges as they unfolded so can't really comment.
But I did get the impression he was promising Christmas every day for some.

 

[dstudent]

Not even the whole 350.
On JC.
Sorry.
I never took much notice of his comments, promises and pledges as they unfolded so can't really comment.
But I did get the impression he was promising Christmas every day for some.

Boris pledge the all 350, at one point he even stated it was in their manifesto agreed by TM, which was not true.
Hey ho life continous,