Land wanted for Falconry

[Simon.Hyett]

Good morning all!

I am currently looking for land around London to practise Falconry. I have a small selection of birds that are able to target pests both in the air and on the ground.
I would love to discuss this with some of you.
Thanks in advance.

Simon

 

[theboytheboy]

How do you control which birds they take?

 

[Simon.Hyett]

How do you control which birds they take?

Largely by training them using lures that resemble the birds you want to target, this isn’t a certain though and they will sometimes target other birds. Not a great pest control options for landowners who hold a shoot (at least through season)

 

[theboytheboy]

My concern would be that they may take the birds we try and protect eg lapwings, curlews, skylarks etc

If you could get then to take corvids and pigeons you could certainly come here!

 

[Danllan]

Largely by training them using lures that resemble the birds you want to target, this isn’t a certain though and they will sometimes target other birds. Not a great pest control options for landowners who hold a shoot (at least through season)

Hmm... I'm a lawyer by profession, but am entirely ignorant of the law around falconry, and an interesting question occurs to me... What liability do you have - if any - should your bird take a protected species?



(An obvious corollary to that is to ask if you know of any species of bird that preys upon badgers... )

 

[Dry Rot]

Hmm... I'm a lawyer by profession, but am entirely ignorant of the law around falconry, and an interesting question occurs to me... What liability do you have - if any - should your bird take a protected species?



(An obvious corollary to that is to ask if you know of any species of bird that preys upon badgers... )

Legally, I think the falconer will be in the clear as it is doubtful that he intends for his bird to take one of the protected species. If, on the other hand, the falconer was flying a raptor which normally preyed on a protected species (say, a merlin at larks or a sparrowhawk at blackbirds) and he did not have the requisite licence, he would be prosecuted like anyone else as that clearly involves intent or the knowledge of the likely outcome. Does that make sense?

There is an old story in falconry circles of the falconer who was invited to fly his bird on land where there was one pair of a rare and protected species. (I think it was stone curlew, but can't really remember). Amongst the observers were some keen bird watchers and RSPB bods as falconry was a rare spectacle at that time. Most waders are very difficult for a bird of prey to catch and the field were assured that a trained falcon had no hope in hell of catching a wild curlew, which is normally true. Yeah, you guessed it! But really no worse than what happens in Nature and just a one off.

As for the badgers, golden eagles have been trained to take foxes within the UK and could probably be trained to take badgers. One falconer in Wales (1940s?) used English setters to find foxes lying out in bracken that he then flew his eagle at. He bragged that he had killed over 100 foxes, but that was always in doubt. Anyway, it was a lot! Predators often become fixated on what they find easiest and habituated to killing and will hunt that in preference. Think of the fox or badger that takes to lambs.

 

[Danllan]

Legally, I think the falconer will be in the clear as it is doubtful that he intends for his bird to take one of the protected species...

As for the badgers, golden eagles have been trained to take foxes within the UK and could probably be trained to take badgers...

I can only comment on the Anglo-Welsh jurisdiction, not for up your way; but, here, it will depend upon whether it's an offence (if it is one) of specific or basic intent i.e. if specific, the falconer would have to have intended the killing of the prohibited species; whereas if basic, regardless of whether it was intentional or reckless, the offence is still committed if the prohibited species ends up dead.

As the law currently stands here, it would be an offence to train any animal or bird to take or kill badgers. However, if the killing of protected species by a bird of prey were to fall under specific intent rules... having a bird capable of killing a badger and then it actually doing so wouldn't see the falconer committing an offence unless it could be proven that he'd intended it to do so, rather than for it to kill e.g. a fox or a hare.

 

[Cab-over Pete]

Will they drag down a travelling entrepreneur?

 

[Danllan]

Will they drag down a travelling entrepreneur?

Branson?

 

[theboytheboy]

Or awkward red tractor inspectors?

 

[Dry Rot]

I can only comment on the Anglo-Welsh jurisdiction, not for up your way; but, here, it will depend upon whether it's an offence (if it is one) of specific or basic intent i.e. if specific, the falconer would have to have intended the killing of the prohibited species; whereas if basic, regardless of whether it was intentional or reckless, the offence is still committed if the prohibited species ends up dead.

As the law currently stands here, it would be an offence to train any animal or bird to take or kill badgers. However, if the killing of protected species by a bird of prey were to fall under specific intent rules... having a bird capable of killing a badger and then it actually doing so wouldn't see the falconer committing an offence unless it could be proven that he'd intended it to do so, rather than for it to kill e.g. a fox or a hare.

That makes sense. The hawks (sparrowhawk, goshawk, etc) are not quite as particular as the falcons when it comes to choice of prey. Sparrowhawks, for example, are rather open minded. Traditionally, they are flown at blackbirds and the falconer will get a licence to take, say, 20 blackbirds in a season. But if something of suitable size happens to crop up, the spar will have a go. So, LBJs sometimes appear in the game book. LBJ= Little Brown Job! I think the authorities turn a blind eye to this as the smaller birds usually breed quite freely and have a large natural mortality anyway. Falconry does not exactly equate to mass slaughter!

I was once asked to take a 12 year old blackbird hawking with a sparrowhawk. When I returned him to his mother he could barely talk through the excitement of the experience. And we didn't actually catch anything! But done properly, there are few sports to beat it.

 

[Wolds Beef]

@Dry Rot I will second you on last comment, The 4 yearly event at Woodhall Spa is now an event I host a small group from on my little patch. I feel privileged to see the sport in the raw!! They also entertain us on the last evening. To see the birds pegged out on the Lawn of the Country House Hotel is also fabulous!
WB

 

[Mickeydredd]

@Wolds Beef I was at the meet briefly this year for the first time, despite being a BFC member for almost 20 years. It is a very traditional gathering and the generosity of you and the other landowners in hosting the Club is very much appreciated.