Life after serviced agronomy.

[neilo]

how many acres is the 2 k over ? if its a 1000 not much saving but if its 200 yes

I changed to an independent a couple of years ago, only made possible as he is serving a couple of larger clients nearby. I only grow 90-100ac of cereal & root crops, and I source my grassland herbicides through his buying group too. My total ag chem spend is £2k less since changing, after paying his fee.
Much of that comes from cheaper chems and using cheaper generics, but also from lower rates and less ‘specials’. It’s amazing how many times I now get reccs that use up the whole of the drum, whereas previously it was nearly always using part of a new drum, which then sat in the shed for 12 months.

The final straw for me was when a pallet of chems turned up once, the day before he walked the crops! When I moved to him, he was far cheaper (& better at his job) than another local guy that does serviced agronomy, who must be saving for a very good retirement.

 

[ajd132]

I changed to an independent a couple of years ago, only made possible as he is serving a couple of larger clients nearby. I only grow 90-100ac of cereal & root crops, and I source my grassland herbicides through his buying group too. My total ag chem spend is £2k less since changing, after paying his fee.
Much of that comes from cheaper chems and using cheaper generics, but also from lower rates and less ‘specials’. It’s amazing how many times I now get reccs that use up the whole of the drum, whereas previously it was nearly always using part of a new drum, which then sat in the shed for 12 months.

The final straw for me was when a pallet of chems turned up once, the day before he walked the crops! When I moved to him, he was far cheaper (& better at his job) than another local guy that does serviced agronomy, who must be saving for a very good retirement.

scale those savings on 100 acres up to a larger area and it absolutely baffles me there is some big operators still doing serviced agronomy!

 

[puppet]

I changed to an independent a couple of years ago, only made possible as he is serving a couple of larger clients nearby. I only grow 90-100ac of cereal & root crops, and I source my grassland herbicides through his buying group too. My total ag chem spend is £2k less since changing, after paying his fee.

The final straw for me was when a pallet of chems turned up once, the day before he walked the crops! When I moved to him, he was far cheaper (& better at his job) than another local guy that does serviced agronomy, who must be saving for a very good retirement.

Your last paragraph illustrates my point in asking what difference the visit makes over and above last years advice. An expert/salesman will always want to tweak advice to justify their payment and there is a huge conflict of interest in knowing the profit on the product you are advising and selling.
When growing cereals in a very small way I used to rely on the spraying contractor for advice as he was doing thousands of acres. My one and only move to an agronomist/salesman resulted in the wrong unlicensed spray being applied costing me 3% of SFP. That was not just for 10 acres of wheat but sheep and cattle payment too

 

[Gong Farmer]

The final straw for me was when a pallet of chems turned up once, the day before he walked the crops!

This happens surprisingly frequently. It means the service agronomist doesn't actually 'walk' the crops as he/she knows what they are going to recommend before they arrive, they've been instructed by their accountants.

The older I get the more dismayed I am at the way the industry has been shafted by the commercial sector. Farmers are isolated so easily picked off.
I think it's worse outside the UK though.

 

[ajd132]

This happens surprisingly frequently. It means the service agronomist doesn't actually 'walk' the crops as he/she knows what they are going to recommend before they arrive, they've been instructed by their accountants.

The older I get the more dismayed I am at the way the industry has been shafted by the commercial sector. Farmers are isolated so easily picked off.
I think it's worse outside the UK though.

its very serious, both on an environmental and economic scale. These companies could well be held accountable in the future. It does the industry a complete disservice. They have made it illegal in france I believe? I know plenty of good agronomists who have worked for these companies in the past but couldn't carry on doing the selling. imagine how many good people and good work could be done if free from the shackles of this cartel.

 

[Pilatus]

Years ago ,there was a well known local ag chem supplier that used to take some of its cutomers on a skiing holiday,
needless to say "their are no free lunches" (when I had a discussion with one of the afore mentioned agronomists it was well nigh impossible to get an answer from them ,when questioned about how much they were charging for their advice,needless to say we soon parted company)

 

[Clive]

This happens surprisingly frequently. It means the service agronomist doesn't actually 'walk' the crops as he/she knows what they are going to recommend before they arrive, they've been instructed by their accountants.

The older I get the more dismayed I am at the way the industry has been shafted by the commercial sector. Farmers are isolated so easily picked off.
I think it's worse outside the UK though.

it really is the time the law protected vulnerable farmers (ie most farmers !) and the environment from this

if a supply agronomy distribution company believes their advice is genuinely good and worth what they charge via inflated chemical charges I can’t see why they would object legitimately to such decoupling of supply and advice ?

 

[MarkD]

I’m an agronomist who has worked as an independent for a long time and now works for a distributor. The poor service you describe is not going to be rewarded by the repeat business needed for long term survival (or avoid the legislative changes taking place in France). I’m working on a number of mechanisms to introduce more accountability for agronomists both sales and independent How would you view a service where the agronomist is incentivised by the Gross Margin of the crops we advise on? Obviously provisions for seasonal yield variations and price variability would need to be accounted for.

 

[T Hectares]

Some may remember a thread I posted last year about moving away from serviced agronomy and shopping around for ag chem or possibly joining a buying group.

Sacking my Agronomist

So, we’ve been on serviced agronomy since year dot, my dad had the same agronomist as my grandad and never had any major issues or reasons to complain. Now the agronomist my dad had retired about 5 years ago so we got a new lad similar age to myself and he’s a decent chap who I get on well...

thefarmingforum.co.uk

It was a tough decision to make after dealing with the same company for a very long time, both my grandad a dad both delt with them but I was ready for a change and felt it was time to shake things up a bit.

Anyway as most will know it’s been a quite (and cheap) few months on the agronomy side due to the weather! However it’s now that time of year when the chem bills start rolling in?, herbicides, T1, etc etc

Well, after my first couple of orders all I can say is wow! I honestly can’t believe the price differences when buying ag chem’s. Just by shopping round for prices I’ll already have saved best part of 2K this year, which more than pays for the time it takes to get a few quotes.

So when will serviced agronomy be put a stop to? I’ll be honest it’s a big step to move away from it but up to now I’d totally recommend shopping round for your ag chem, it will pay for its self!

@Phil P its great to hear your change went well, I remember commenting on your original thread and I often feel it’s sad that so often when threads like yours pop up it turns into a slanging match between independent or DIY v serviced with the serviced customers so strongly defending the companies that are exploiting them, it’s great to hear when someone comes out the other side and it’s like they’ve left a cult or like they realise they have been suffering from an agronomic version of Stockholm syndrome...

Thanks for sharing and just think of your annual saving per ha multiplied by the area covered by serviced agronomy in the UK which sadly still covers the larger share of the countries Arable land !!

 

[ajd132]

I’m an agronomist who has worked as an independent for a long time and now works for a distributor. The poor service you describe is not going to be rewarded by the repeat business needed for long term survival (or avoid the legislative changes taking place in France). I’m working on a number of mechanisms to introduce more accountability for agronomists both sales and independent How would you view a service where the agronomist is incentivised by the Gross Margin of the crops we advise on? Obviously provisions for seasonal yield variations and price variability would need to be accounted for.

That would be a much better way of doing it.

 

[T Hectares]

I’m an agronomist who has worked as an independent for a long time and now works for a distributor. The poor service you describe is not going to be rewarded by the repeat business needed for long term survival (or avoid the legislative changes taking place in France). I’m working on a number of mechanisms to introduce more accountability for agronomists both sales and independent How would you view a service where the agronomist is incentivised by the Gross Margin of the crops we advise on? Obviously provisions for seasonal yield variations and price variability would need to be accounted for.

It would be a start but IMHO it all sounds a bit difficult and over complicated when a splitting of advice and supply would be a better advance, along with more Gov money for farmer training and research??

 

[Clive]

I’m an agronomist who has worked as an independent for a long time and now works for a distributor. The poor service you describe is not going to be rewarded by the repeat business needed for long term survival (or avoid the legislative changes taking place in France). I’m working on a number of mechanisms to introduce more accountability for agronomists both sales and independent How would you view a service where the agronomist is incentivised by the Gross Margin of the crops we advise on? Obviously provisions for seasonal yield variations and price variability would need to be accounted for.

fee based on gross margin would be a good idea I think and short of decoupling completely probably the only realistic way forward for distribution agronomy imo longer term

 

[Clive]

It would be a start but IMHO it all sounds a bit difficult and over complicated when a splitting of advice and supply would be a better advance, along with more Gov money for farmer training and research??

biggest issue agronomy faces is AI and algorithms which are going to quickly replace it completely. When that happens supply will likely become direct from manufacturers

distrubution is desperately trying to work out how it can have a place in this future imo and is going to have to think radically to survive these changes

 

[ajd132]

biggest issue agronomy faces is AI and algorithms which are going to quickly replace it completely. When that happens supply will likely become direct from manufacturers

distrubution is desperately trying to work out how it can have a place in this future imo and is going to have to think radically to survive these changes

it has to come back what I repeatedly keep saying. there is a large amount of money leaving the industry whether we like it or not. the reality is that agriculture carries a lot of people that are not offering any value. The golden goose is no longer laying eggs and the industry will have to re-structure to go in line with that. The future is bright if farmers can start thinking a bit differently and get their own houses in order first.

 

[nelly55]

“If you have to ask how much it costs you can’t afford it” about says it all really do I hear the corn merchant or the slaughter house asking my price so that I can reply you can’t afford it.This is what is totally wrong in agriculture we are told what to pay and get insults if we question the price yet get told what we can sell for and expect us to take the insult.If corn is £150 ton then suddenly £60 a ton so we get a refund on the inputs.

 

[Brisel]

Simply because I like to post an alternative view & I'm an awkward bugger, I'll defend serviced agronomy for once

Why do we still use accountants to submit accounts? Because they have the specialist knowledge of taxation and other legislation that frequently changes in order to provide you with good service whilst doing a job most don't find scintillating even though it is critical to the survival of their business. To many, agronomy is similar. Specialist knowledge of products, what is being revoked, growth stage cut off and what's new. Which is the most cost effective product for that variety/weed/pest in that season? (I know I'm skating on thin ice with that one!). Some farmers don't want to spend a not inconsiderable amount of their time keeping up to date with all of this & choose to outsource that specialist subject to a professional.

Some farmers just aren't interested in agronomy. Farmers with several enterprises can't be geeks in all of them all of the time. They are happy to have someone walk the fields, write the tickets for the sprayer driver and order the chemicals too. Any unused products are taken back & they are first in the queue when products run short. How simple is that?

Can a mixed farmer with 300 acres of crops get an independent to walk their crops & have they then got the time to ring around for prices & orders?

Serviced agronomy packages have a place. The fact that it is still a big % of the market suggests that not all growers think they are being shafted sideways. Some may be ignorant about the alternatives but some may be happy that their crops look better than their neighbours and the service is good. TFF is a forum for people who seek knowledge or just have a rant with like minded people. I don't see serviced agronomy getting glowing reviews in TFF - you wouldn't extol the virtues of animal rearing in a vegan forum without getting some hassle in return...!

Ask your independent agronomist how they got started - many will have been trained & had their early careers in the service trade.

Me? I'm a dedicated manager of a large arable and conservation farm where the seed, fertiliser and sprays bill is approx. half our total costs and runs in to 6 figures every year. We have the scale to justify my BASIS and FACTS training, and to hire an independent agronomist to walk fields and provide a medium for the exchange of ideas and strategies. He also walks many other farms so sees issues in advance and afterwards so can learn from those experiences. I pay his firm a fee per acre walked and organise my own deliveries via a buying group who seek to get the best deals and cut out middlemen yet save me even more time ringing around suppliers for quotes. I don't regret that choice, enjoy agronomy and chasing the best strategies for my employers.

 

[Brisel]

I’m an agronomist who has worked as an independent for a long time and now works for a distributor. The poor service you describe is not going to be rewarded by the repeat business needed for long term survival (or avoid the legislative changes taking place in France). I’m working on a number of mechanisms to introduce more accountability for agronomists both sales and independent How would you view a service where the agronomist is incentivised by the Gross Margin of the crops we advise on? Obviously provisions for seasonal yield variations and price variability would need to be accounted for.

I have mixed feelings about this. The big R&D manufacturers have been talking about "sharing some of the risk" with growers for a while. That means sharing all of your information and some of the reward. GM crop growers are forced to buy complete packages from suppliers who are creaming off more of the farmers' margins.

I know this is from the internet and is suitably biased but read this Who do you think is getting the margin out of this? It's certainly not the farmer.

We need to be careful about risk/reward "sharing." We will be further exploited by those with the market power to take away our alternatives.

 

[ajd132]

I have mixed feelings about this. The big R&D manufacturers have been talking about "sharing some of the risk" with growers for a while. That means sharing all of your information and some of the reward. GM crop growers are forced to buy complete packages from suppliers who are creaming off more of the farmers' margins.

I know this is from the internet and is suitably biased but read this Who do you think is getting the margin out of this? It's certainly not the farmer.

View attachment 874152

We need to be careful about risk/reward "sharing." We will be further exploited by those with the market power to take away our alternatives.

the perfect way is we all pay a group like niab to do all the independent research, then buy the inputs directly from the manufacturer. the current supply chain of manufacturer, distirubtor, big buying group is overly complicated.

 

[SilliamWhale]

the perfect way is we all pay a group like niab to do all the independent research, then buy the inputs directly from the manufacturer. the current supply chain of manufacturer, distirubtor, big buying group is overly complicated.

Or actually the AHDB levy could pay NIAB. They have a big r and d budget and we can all enjoy some cost savings. As Im sure there is an element of doubling up in some areas

Combinable crop agronomy doesn't change that much from year to year really.

 

[ajd132]

Or actually the AHDB levy could pay NIAB. They have a big r and d budget and we can all enjoy some cost savings.

Combinable crop agronomy doesn't change that much from year to year really.

good shout