Limousin

[Thick Farmer]

Until the EUROP grid is discarded then the Limo will always win out as it is best suited to that system.

However, if taste is incorporated in the payment structure, then Hereford, Angus etc are well ahead of the rest..

 

[Cowgirl]

Well, you seem to know quite a lot. Why do you think you don't?

We're New Entrants, trying to farm with no SFP and no farming background - any knowledge I have is more theoretical than practical! But I'm very enthusiastic and keen to learn!

 

[JP1]

We're New Entrants, trying to farm with no SFP and no farming background - any knowledge I have is more theoretical than practical! But I'm very enthusiastic and keen to learn!

Then you'll do alright and I wish you all the very best

 

[choochter]

We're New Entrants, trying to farm with no SFP and no farming background - any knowledge I have is more theoretical than practical! But I'm very enthusiastic and keen to learn!

So was I, not so long ago.

 

[Cowgirl]

Then you'll do alright and I wish you all the very best

Thanks very much!

 

[Walterp]

We calved 65 sim & simx this spring to sim & aa bulls, we had the vet twice (shmallenburgs) & helped 5 cows abit but all the calves were up & away without our help, even the twins. They're all on creep now but eating very little-plenty of grass & milk. We sell them mainly as 12mth stores & prices are on a par with limos or better & we have enjoyed & taken pride in our stock.

They are nice cattle, the ones I think I've seen thru' the ring anyway.

It doesn't take away from the fact that Simmental calves can be hard to calve, slow to suck and fast to die.

 

[Samcowman]

Until the EUROP grid is discarded then the Limo will always win out as it is best suited to that system.

However, if taste is incorporated in the payment structure, then Hereford, Angus etc are well ahead of the rest..

One day it will and it will have to come from the supermarkets, as they are the driving force behind meat purchasing here unfortunately. It will be on a tenderness scoring and the highly strung continentals whether they are limousin, blonde or whatever they are will be phased out leaving behind quieter lines in their breed as I find it difficult to see they will be wiped off of the map by natives. The supermarkets are jumping on the native bandwagon and paying massive premiums on them which is driving forward their success at the moment. When the grading system changes this premium probably won't be as high as it was but they will be a top grade for tenderness generally so will still be getting a premium over continental cattle with less tender meat.

(Edited my last bit out due to wrong thread )

 

[Dafydd]

It doesn't take away from the fact that Simmental calves can be hard to calve, slow to suck and fast to die.

Is this from experience or just hearsay?

 

[Bill the Bass]

As a relative newbie "girl learning", I'm finding it difficult to understand all this.
Hybrid vigour would occur with any crossbred animal - the only reason purebreds are kept is because hopefully the breeding results are more predictable.
There are certain words which for me need a definition, eg "quality" - what does this mean? Not temperament obviously. Meat quality / taste / tenderness? Not necessarily it seems. Good looking / show quality with a cute head for commercial classes? Profitability/ bottom line after all costs taken into account? Or the best price at the market?
"Conformation" - again what does this mean? Big double muscled hindquarters? Eye muscle area? - can't be because can't tell this without a scan. Surely what this means is "fashionable conformation". When I was a Young Farmer stock judging many years ago, these animals would have been regarded as very strange looking indeed - in fact farmers are perhaps no different from dog breeders in producing extreme conformation!
I don't think John Douglas or Robert Parker would admit that his Black Baldies are a failure.
Easy calving? There are lots of breeds that are very easy calving.
I think that everyone has to choose the best they can for their particular situation. My feeling is that our forefathers spent generations producing native breed cattle to suit our dreadful climate which could live much more profitably than Continental cattle on marginal grassland alone, if it were not for the fashion for cattle with huge back ends and an obsession with very lean meat, which isn't as healthy as we have been led to believe.
I also feel that lots of farmers are locked into a high input, high output system that they can't get out of.
But what would I know?

One thing I have learnt about farming in my relatively short career is that there is no right or wrong answer which is what makes it so interesting and fun to debate!

 

[M-J-G]

Until the EUROP grid is discarded then the Limo will always win out as it is best suited to that system.

However, if taste is incorporated in the payment structure, then Hereford, Angus etc are well ahead of the rest..

400Kg Carcase @ 6p/Grade is only £24 on an animal. That £24 doesn't cover the loss of many lwt Kgs

 

[Walterp]

As a relative newbie "girl learning", I'm finding it difficult to understand all this.
Hybrid vigour would occur with any crossbred animal - the only reason purebreds are kept is because hopefully the breeding results are more predictable.
There are certain words which for me need a definition, eg "quality" - what does this mean? Not temperament obviously. Meat quality / taste / tenderness? Not necessarily it seems. Good looking / show quality with a cute head for commercial classes? Profitability/ bottom line after all costs taken into account? Or the best price at the market?
"Conformation" - again what does this mean? Big double muscled hindquarters? Eye muscle area? - can't be because can't tell this without a scan. Surely what this means is "fashionable conformation". When I was a Young Farmer stock judging many years ago, these animals would have been regarded as very strange looking indeed - in fact farmers are perhaps no different from dog breeders in producing extreme conformation!
I don't think John Douglas or Robert Parker would admit that his Black Baldies are a failure.
Easy calving? There are lots of breeds that are very easy calving.
I think that everyone has to choose the best they can for their particular situation. My feeling is that our forefathers spent generations producing native breed cattle to suit our dreadful climate which could live much more profitably than Continental cattle on marginal grassland alone, if it were not for the fashion for cattle with huge back ends and an obsession with very lean meat, which isn't as healthy as we have been led to believe.
I also feel that lots of farmers are locked into a high input, high output system that they can't get out of.
But what would I know?

Hmm. How about:

1. HV isn't really exploited as much as you might suppose, perhaps because of the way the UK beef herd has been developed by a load of ex-dairy farmers who don't like sheep. HV is just as predictable as breeding pure, neither is an exact science because some genetics just 'click' and, err, some don't.

2. 'Quality' means, in the UK, the carcase weight x KOP x the killing grade - a Limousin heifer who kills at 65% at R4L on a 325kg carcase is a good standard. More and more farmers are meeting that standard, but some breeds struggle on grades (for example, South Devon used to, but I don't know about now) whilst others hit higher wieghts but with more bone and less KOP.

3. Julie shows at Crufts every year, and her ideas about Herefords and Angus and Limousins are on a par with her views on Labradors and Vallhunds - it's down to the hind quarters.

4. Julie also has some Black Baldies, nice cattle but they have failed to catch on at all. No shame in that, it's the truth.

5. Ease of calving is a bit of a mystery, because few livestock farmers admit to their true assisted-calving percentages. Some Simmental breeders, for example, reckon pulling only 50% of their calve is a great achievement. I don't mind 'em pulling calves, just don't try to tell me otherwise when I know it's going on...

6. Native breeds? They have been left behind by the import wave of the 1970's, and the Angus is the only one that has (as yet) fought back - perhaps on the back of the Americans) - to be even better than they were before. Whether they are, in fact, the same cattle as they were before is interesting - but does it matter, if they are better? No, of course not.

7. But the point about high-cost beef systems is really hard to answer...

 

[M-J-G]

They are nice cattle, the ones I think I've seen thru' the ring anyway.

It doesn't take away from the fact that Simmental calves can be hard to calve, slow to suck and fast to die.

Think there may be a lack of stockmanship or a livestock health issue involved somewhere in there. I wouldn't claim to be the worlds best and I can manage fine with the breed.

 

[Walterp]

Is this from experience or just hearsay?

Experience.

 

[Walterp]

Think there may be a lack of stockmanship or a livestock health issue involved somewhere in there. I wouldn't claim to be the worlds best and I can manage fine with the breed.

The Simmental breed has, in some people's eyes, gone in the direction of 'square' bulls that lead to hard calvings. It's harder to pick out a wedge-shaped Simmental bull, just as it is to select a light-brisketed Angus, but I'd suggest that it's one way to limit calving problems.

 

[Bill the Bass]

Think there may be a lack of stockmanship or a livestock health issue involved somewhere in there. I wouldn't claim to be the worlds best and I can manage fine with the breed.

Kind of sums up my thoughts on Limousins

 

[M-J-G]

The Simmental breed has, in some people's eyes, gone in the direction of 'square' bulls that lead to hard calvings. It's harder to pick out a wedge-shaped Simmental bull, just as it is to select a light-brisketed Angus, but I'd suggest that it's one way to limit calving problems.

There is a fair bit of variation in breeds as we know.

I calve my 22-25 month old heifers to a Simmental and get on ok and pull only a few calves from cows or heifers any year.

I spoke to a lady on Saturday who has calved a few Pure Herefords for the first time this year and said that even at grass they 4 of them haven't produced the milk that would feed a calf between them, and now she is rearing some of the calves by hand. Is this a true example of a Hereford?

There are bad ones in them all.

 

[Cowgirl]

Hmm. How about:

1. HV isn't really exploited as much as you might suppose, perhaps because of the way the UK beef herd has been developed by a load of ex-dairy farmers who don't like sheep. HV is just as predictable as breeding pure, neither is an exact science because some genetics just 'click' and, err, some don't.

2. 'Quality' means, in the UK, the carcase weight x KOP x the killing grade - a Limousin heifer who kills at 65% at R4L on a 325kg carcase is a good standard. More and more farmers are meeting that standard, but some breeds struggle on grades (for example, South Devon used to, but I don't know about now) whilst others hit higher wieghts but with more bone and less KOP.

3. Julie shows at Crufts every year, and her ideas about Herefords and Angus and Limousins are on a par with her views on Labradors and Vallhunds - it's down to the hind quarters.

4. Julie also has some Black Baldies, nice cattle but they have failed to catch on at all. No shame in that, it's the truth.

5. Ease of calving is a bit of a mystery, because few livestock farmers admit to their true assisted-calving percentages. Some Simmental breeders, for example, reckon pulling only 50% of their calve is a great achievement. I don't mind 'em pulling calves, just don't try to tell me otherwise when I know it's going on...

6. Native breeds? They have been left behind by the import wave of the 1970's, and the Angus is the only one that has (as yet) fought back - perhaps on the back of the Americans) - to be even better than they were before. Whether they are, in fact, the same cattle as they were before is interesting - but does it matter, if they are better? No, of course not.

7. But the point about high-cost beef systems is really hard to answer...

Thank you for this - helps a lot esp the bit about quality - just had a blinding flash of the obvious - was it the French who designed the EUROP grid to suit the Limousin by any chance?
I have also shown at Crufts and am a Ch show judge - and some Labradors have shocking fronts, esp dodgy elbows, so it's perhaps not all about the hindquarters!
Yes calving ease is about honesty - I did wonder about that.
Yes it does matter if a breed is not what it's supposed to be otherwise it's fraud in my opinion, and who decides if they are "better"? (EUROP again?) There, I've had my say! Definitely fun to debate!

 

[Walterp]

I spoke to a lady on Saturday who has calved a few Pure Herefords for the first time this year and said that even at grass they 4 of them haven't produced the milk that feed a calf between them, and now she is rearing some of the calves by hand. Is this a true example of a Hereford?

Some people would say that the best bull for a Hereford would be a Simmental...

 

[M-J-G]

Some people would say that the best bull for a Hereford would be a Simmental...

To add what in particular?

 

[Walterp]

I have also shown at Crufts and am a Ch show judge - and some Labradors have shocking fronts, esp dodgy elbows, so it's perhaps not all about the hindquarters!

Julie will be impressed.

One of her Vallhunds got made up to reserve champ at Windsor last week at a young age, and she hasn't stopped boring on about it since....give me a nice Pembrokeshire Corgi any day. Tail? What tail?