Little and Large

[Jerry]

It only really kicked of lambing at the weekend so early days as yet. But in the doubles I’m getting a good percentage where one lamb is a good size and the other is a good 30% smaller.

Both lambs are healthy and thrive.

Last year we discovered a Toxo issue with abortions. So all the shearlings and ewe lambs plus a slug of 4th were vaccinated with Toxo and Enzo.

Ewes are fit. Been on stubble turnips most of the winter and then decent grass.

All bolusedpre tupping and always had free access to mineral buckets.

Resent blood tests for trace elements have been good including Iodine.

Any ideas?

 

[neilo]

It’s normally a nutritional issue iirc, where energy is a bit low. Could be a result of the lovely weather over winter perhaps?

 

[Jerry]

It’s normally a nutritional issue iirc, where energy is a bit low. Could be a result of the lovely weather over winter perhaps?

That’s what is in my mind.

I've held of giving the doubles much in the way of hard feed as they were fit and already had a couple prolapse.

 

[exmoor dave]

Many years ago, i think I read that there's a trace element factor- possibly cobalt that causes this..... probably amongst many other potential causes

 

[Jerry]

Many years ago, i think I read that there's a trace element factor- possibly cobalt that causes this..... probably amongst many other potential causes

Yes. I know I’m short on cobalt and main reason I bolus with Mayo 4 in 1.

Don’t think that is an issue at moment as bloods taken month ago were all spot on.

 

[exmoor dave]

That’s what is in my mind.

I've held of giving the doubles much in the way of hard feed as they were fit and already had a couple prolapse.

Another thought on something I've read years ago, when the lambs are forming, the connections on the placenta are divided up, not always equally, if say the ewe actually starts with 3 lambs, but one has 50% of connections, the other 2 have 25% each and one is reabsorbed, the remaining small still only has 25% as those connections can't be shared back out.

 

[exmoor dave]

Yes. I know I’m short on cobalt and main reason I bolus with Mayo 4 in 1.

Don’t think that is an issue at moment as bloods taken month ago were all spot on.

The problem will have been at conception

 

[Jerry]

The problem will have been at conception

Ah. Ok. They were bolused a month pre tupping. Be had free access to mineral licks then as well.

I also give them a drench at same time as bolus to up levels quickly. Just the standard MV drench but includes cobalt.

 

[exmoor dave]

Ah. Ok. They were bolused a month pre tupping. Be had free access to mineral licks then as well.

I also give them a drench at same time as bolus to up levels quickly. Just the standard MV drench but includes cobalt.

Probs not a cobalt problem then, I think the little and large thing is probably a potential symptom of a few different problems

 

[primmiemoo]

Had one ewe that threw one little and one large at each lambing. She looked as though she was rearing an uneven adoption.

Wondered if she had some sort of problem with one horn of her uterus, or if she consistently conceived twins on one side (losing one), and a single on the other.

 

[Jerry]

Probs not a cobalt problem then, I think the little and large thing is probably a potential symptom of a few different problems

I’ll mention it to the vet next time I see him to see if he has any thought.

 

[SteveHants]

According to the literature it's because the ewe was initially triplet bearing, but one foetus got reabsorbed - the successful foetus that shared the uterine horn with the reabsorbed one will have had to compete for nutrients in the earlier stages of pregnancy and therefore won't have grown as well as the foetus in the other uterine horn (that had it all to itself).

 

[Jerry]

According to the literature it's because the ewe was initially triplet bearing, but one foetus got reabsorbed - the successful foetus that shared the uterine horn with the reabsorbed one will have had to compete for nutrients in the earlier stages of pregnancy and therefore won't have grown as well as the foetus in the other uterine horn (that had it all to itself).

That’s really interesting. Thanks.

would have done the lambing percentage the world of good if they had held.....?

 

[dt995]

According to the literature it's because the ewe was initially triplet bearing, but one foetus got reabsorbed - the successful foetus that shared the uterine horn with the reabsorbed one will have had to compete for nutrients in the earlier stages of pregnancy and therefore won't have grown as well as the foetus in the other uterine horn (that had it all to itself).

We had this happen this year, one midget lamb. Do you have a link to the literature? Would have been our first triplets.

Thanks

 

[SteveHants]

We had this happen this year, one midget lamb. Do you have a link to the literature? Would have been our first triplets.

Thanks

Here's some generic. I could dig out some papers if you like.

https://www.nadis.org.uk/disease-a-...ulletin-ewe-nutrition-and-metabolic-diseases/

 

[dt995]

That's great thanks. We found we were cobalt deficient last year but gave a few injections and have always had buckets since then. An alternative explanation sounds better

 

[puppet]

Not every sheep problem is down to trace elements. Small lamb is poor placental growth (mid pregnancy) +/- inadequate energy(late pregnancy).
You are always going to get odd cases because of the resorbed triplet situation

 

[UpAndUnder]

Had one ewe that threw one little and one large at each lambing. She looked as though she was rearing an uneven adoption.

Wondered if she had some sort of problem with one horn of her uterus, or if she consistently conceived twins on one side (losing one), and a single on the other.

Got one here the same and somehow missed to cull her in the autumn so be interesting to see if she does the same this year ?

 

[Skintagain]

Had it last year in outdoor lambed sheep that were more reliant on the grass (very little) whereas the indoor lambers that are the same sheep were getting more concentrate and were fine.

 

[An ancient git]

Exmoor Dave is right . Mike Tempest gave a talk (about 35 yrs ago) on this issue of 3>2 , and lamb(s) left not filling up space in uterus ..... As long as they are healthy , then don't worry . It's Nature doing its thing in a difficult wet year ..... Guess we may all see quite a bit of this scenario in current lambing season .....