manitou lost drive

[Johnny devil]

Have a Manitou MT425cp, purchased with no drive, everything else working spot on.

Story was it had been parked up a while, moved from one spot to another, the next day it wouldn't drive. Runs perfect but Zero happens when gears selected or forward/reverse shifter moved. Transmission oil is pink and up to the line when engine idling, this could have been filled up before I purchased it after it wouldn't move so that could be suspect. Seem to be getting power to most relevant places, difficult without any real workshop book.

Any gurus on here? Being an older machine, hard to find people who still know it inside out and Manitou are not interested, surprise surprise..

Thanks in advance!

 

[Nearly]

@ACEngineering

 

[ACEngineering]

Have a Manitou MT425cp, purchased with no drive, everything else working spot on.

Story was it had been parked up a while, moved from one spot to another, the next day it wouldn't drive. Runs perfect but Zero happens when gears selected or forward/reverse shifter moved. Transmission oil is pink and up to the line when engine idling, this could have been filled up before I purchased it after it wouldn't move so that could be suspect. Seem to be getting power to most relevant places, difficult without any real workshop book.

Any gurus on here? Being an older machine, hard to find people who still know it inside out and Manitou are not interested, surprise surprise..

Thanks in advance!

Pink oil means its got water in it, that could be from the gearstick boot or the oil cooler in the bottom of the radiator.

When its been working and warmed up that water destroys the glue bonding on the clutch pack friction disc and will also form rust in side the box at the top were there is no oil and on other parts too.

Spin the oil filter off and run the machine to see if you get oil out of the filter, if you have no oil then its either the pump failed or the clutch pack linings have come off and is blocking the suction filter which is in the bottom behind and oval plate with 2 bolts.

IMO either way it will result in a transmission overhaul as a long term fix although if blocked cleaning the suction filter may get it going in the short term.

Edit, also check the transmission dump cable isn't seized up, if it has been pressed and not returned then that would loose all drive. That would be the simplest of all fixes!

 

[Johnny devil]

Okay great, thanks @ACEngineering. Im up in the workshop again tonight so will give this a crack.

In honestly, the oil might be red not pink after my above statement, does look very clean and doesn't smell burnt but will check and see if I'm wrong later.

''Edit, also check the transmission dump cable isn't seized up, if it has been pressed and not returned then that would loose all drive. That would be the simplest of all fixes!''

Sorry, just to check, Is this the third pedal along side the brake pedal or are we talking about the diff lock pedal below the seat as such which is also feeling pretty seized....

 

[ACEngineering]

Okay great, thanks @ACEngineering. Im up in the workshop again tonight so will give this a crack.

In honestly, the oil might be red not pink after my above statement, does look very clean and doesn't smell burnt but will check and see if I'm wrong later.

''Edit, also check the transmission dump cable isn't seized up, if it has been pressed and not returned then that would loose all drive. That would be the simplest of all fixes!''

Sorry, just to check, Is this the third pedal along side the brake pedal or are we talking about the diff lock pedal below the seat as such which is also feeling pretty seized....

Pedal next to brake pedal, will have cable going to valve on top of gearbox, it dumps the oil pressure to cut drive so you can change up or down the 4 gears with out having to knock the f/r lever in to neutral.

 

[Johnny devil]

okay, on the same page. I have looked at this, thought there was only a switch that engaged and disengaged with pressing the pedal, did not notice any cable so will investigate further tonight!

 

[ACEngineering]

okay, on the same page. I have looked at this, thought there was only a switch that engaged and disengaged with pressing the pedal, did not notice any cable so will investigate further tonight!

99% sure its cable operated dump valve and cable operated forward/reverse lever.

The electric valve versions on this box didnt come in till around 1996 ish.
Not sure but would have thought 425 was long obsolete by then as the 4ws steer models came in 1989 and by 1996 the mlt 626 had moved on to series 3 and about this time the 628 replaced the 626 to a start whole new model range!

I think I have seen a MT425 dated 1994 though but god knows why people bought them when the 626 series 3 was miles better

 

[Sparkplug]

In that era there were some machines with a gear lever switch to dump transmission and of course the handbrake switch from memory plus dump pedal and all interconnected I believe.

 

[ACEngineering]

In that era there were some machines with a gear lever switch to dump transmission and of course the handbrake switch from memory plus dump pedal and all interconnected I believe.

Not if it was a cable operated dump valve, if it was an electric type then yes, could have dump on brake pedal and button on gearstick and possibly on handbrake too as you say.

 

[Johnny devil]

Okay so had a play tonight.

Drained the oil and cleaned the mesh filter. Not amazing but by no means blocked. Refilled but to no difference. Defiantly good pump pressure, workshop floor now covered so a check there.. lol

The pedal is switch operated it would appear, only cable on forward/reverse selector. The switch has power and depressing the switch changes volts on one of the I think four wires so seems to be in order.

Is there any electrics that could result in the drive lost? or am I no leaning towards box off job..

Thanks again in advance

 

[mo!]

The 425CP we had used the electric dump pedal. I remember changing the transmission pressure sensor a few times as well? I think the part is the same as the one on our current 627.

 

[ACEngineering]

Okay so had a play tonight.

Drained the oil and cleaned the mesh filter. Not amazing but by no means blocked. Refilled but to no difference. Defiantly good pump pressure, workshop floor now covered so a check there.. lol

The pedal is switch operated it would appear, only cable on forward/reverse selector. The switch has power and depressing the switch changes volts on one of the I think four wires so seems to be in order.

Is there any electrics that could result in the drive lost? or am I no leaning towards box off job..

Thanks again in advance

send me the beasts serial number! never seen a electric dump on a cable f/r lever before on manitou but maybe i just never took notice of it

 

[Johnny devil]

send me the beasts serial number! never seen a electric dump on a cable f/r lever before on manitou but maybe i just never took notice of it

so its a MT425CP,

Serial - 74700

 

[Johnny devil]

The 425CP we had used the electric dump pedal. I remember changing the transmission pressure sensor a few times as well? I think the part is the same as the one on our current 627.

Ah okay, maybe worth a punt then. Is this the one located forward of the Forward/Reverse selector mechanism on top of the gearbox? Mounted vertically?

 

[ACEngineering]

Ah okay, maybe worth a punt then. Is this the one located forward of the Forward/Reverse selector mechanism on top of the gearbox? Mounted vertically?

Pressure switch isn't going to stop your drive, it just common for them to leak or be faulty. Machine will still drive though.

 

[ACEngineering]

so its a MT425CP,

Serial - 74700

Look like there was electric dumps with cable f/r

Try unplugging the wire on it see what happens then try putting a 12volt feed to it off battery temporary just to be 100% as i don't know which way it dumps the drive. I would guess its powered on to dump but it is an English gearbox in a french machine so anything possible

 

[ACEngineering]

so its a MT425CP,

Serial - 74700

These are your forward and reverse clutch pack pressure test ports, the low pressure warning sensor/switch should be screwed in to the forward pack. You can tee in too these to check your clutch pack pressure.

On top of the filter head there is also a Test port, you can use that to check main pump pressure BUT on these old boxes i'm sure you will only get about 80psi in neutral on main pressure which will then rise to hopefully 150psi to 180psi when you engage forwards or reverse.

In both the clutch packs you want 150psi to 180psi.

 

[Johnny devil]

Look like there was electric dumps with cable f/r

Try unplugging the wire on it see what happens then try putting a 12volt feed to it off battery temporary just to be 100% as i don't know which way it dumps the drive. I would guess its powered on to dump but it is an English gearbox in a french machine so anything possible

So I have played with this! When turning the key you can here it clicking and when removing the wires you can hear it operating. I have not hooked 12volt feed direct as with the above, I assumed it is working but did try running with this disconnected to see if it made any difference but none! Is it normal for this to energise, heard by a clicking, when the ignition is switched on

Defiantly stumped on this one

 

[ACEngineering]

So I have played with this! When turning the key you can here it clicking and when removing the wires you can hear it operating. I have not hooked 12volt feed direct as with the above, I assumed it is working but did try running with this disconnected to see if it made any difference but none! Is it normal for this to energise, heard by a clicking, when the ignition is switched on

Defiantly stumped on this one

sorry i don't know if it dumps oil when powered or not. it could work either way but one would assume as for the most part you would be driving the machine it would be sensible to power it up so it dumps oil to cut drive rather than be powered all the time to get drive.

Not seen this set up as normally they have a cable attached where that solenoid is which when you pull it the drive stops.

 

[Johnny devil]

sorry i don't know if it dumps oil when powered or not. it could work either way but one would assume as for the most part you would be driving the machine it would be sensible to power it up so it dumps oil to cut drive rather than be powered all the time to get drive.

Not seen this set up as normally they have a cable attached where that solenoid is which when you pull it the drive stops.

Okay thanks.

Have not got a pressure tester, just ordered one so will see what that comes back with. I do suspect the pressure will come back okay, wondering if something a bit more detrimental has broken inside the box. That being said, you would think you might hear this rolling around!