Manitou MLT 634 with Mercedes engine cannot start ?

[SteveO]

I have a problem with my Manitou with Merc engine, year 2012. I just got it and I was thinking batteries are bad and I bought 2 new batteries 700 CCA and exchanged them.
It still spins the engine but does not start. When I add starter 1000A then it starts. Also idle is on 1100-1200 which is little bit high?

Does it have some heating procedure for engine ? Also does it maybe have electric pump like John Deere tractors which fills the pump ? I dont hear any buzzing sound when I turn the key. Old MLT with Perkins started a lot easier with good batteries.

@ACEngineering is the guy I hope and also I hope you read PM amd email and send me manuals for it Thanks

 

[SteveO]

As I have googled a bit and I see that starter is sh!t on Mercedes and that it needs better starter. Can someone write exact model from Iskra or Mahle which I need ?

 

[vantage]

@ACEngineering is your man!

 

[Timbo]

ACE will be along soon - these Merc engine MLT's need some very specific upgrades then they will start !!!

 

[Sandy]

Check both fuse holders in beside the battery one goes to the engine and one smaller one to the cab, I had the same problem and the one going to the cab had a bad connection

 

[melted welly]

AC Engineering will get you a proper starter for the merc engine, turned ours into a new machine, can’t help but start now. original was terrible, often be 15mins getting it going, worse in the cold.

 

[ACEngineering]

As I have googled a bit and I see that starter is sh!t on Mercedes and that it needs better starter. Can someone write exact model from Iskra or Mahle which I need ?

I'm here! Just been on site all day working on a mlt 735 with merc engine as it happens see ?

I sell an upgrade iskra/mahle starter for them much better and 1/3 the price of manitous rubbish!

Needs a minor mod to wiring but otherwise easy fit.
They are not a common starter and only 1 place in uk stocks it and they only stock 1! Apparently I'm they only one buying/selling it though?‍ according to iskra UK anyway?

£355 plus vat delivered. Will check stock later this evening as I sold one not long ago they might not have replaced it yet.
I used to stock one myself but since they started keeping one on shelf for me there little point.

One of the things that makes it slightly unusual is it has to have a relay on it as it's the engine ECU that tells it to start not the ignition switch. With out the relay it will burn out the ECU.

 

[Weare Cham]

I'm here! Just been on site all day working on a mlt 735 with merc engine as it happens see [emoji846]

I sell an upgrade iskra/mahle starter for them much better and 1/3 the price of manitous rubbish!

Needs a minor mod to wiring but otherwise easy fit.
They are not a common starter and only 1 place in uk stocks it and they only stock 1! Apparently I'm they only one buying/selling it though?‍ according to iskra UK anyway?

£355 plus vat delivered. Will check stock later this evening as I sold one not long ago they might not have replaced it yet.
I used to stock one myself but since they started keeping one on shelf for me there little point.

One of the things that makes it slightly unusual is it has to have a relay on it as it's the engine ECU that tells it to start not the ignition switch. With out the relay it will burn out the ECU.

I may also be ordering one soon too!

On my old 629-120 perkins I put a bigger earth cable on which transformed how well it started. Would this be beneficial on the Merc?

 

[ACEngineering]

I may also be ordering one soon too!

On my old 629-120 perkins I put a bigger earth cable on which transformed how well it started. Would this be beneficial on the Merc?

Not really no, it already has massive leads on it!

I have been changing the starters on them from new with just a few hundred hours on them.

 

[ACEngineering]

Just just checked Supplier does have 1 starter in UK stock. 100% satisfaction guaranteed. Not only will you like it but you will be wanting them on all your gear!

 

[ACEngineering]

I have a problem with my Manitou with Merc engine, year 2012. I just got it and I was thinking batteries are bad and I bought 2 new batteries 700 CCA and exchanged them.
It still spins the engine but does not start. When I add starter 1000A then it starts. Also idle is on 1100-1200 which is little bit high?

Does it have some heating procedure for engine ? Also does it maybe have electric pump like John Deere tractors which fills the pump ? I dont hear any buzzing sound when I turn the key. Old MLT with Perkins started a lot easier with good batteries.

@ACEngineering is the guy I hope and also I hope you read PM amd email and send me manuals for it Thanks

Hello Just reading your post now i sat down and more time.

the first mercs had 2 batteries, these i recommend you replace with Varta E44 cause they have the best cranking amps i know of 780cca i think?
later mercs they fitted a big single 622 type battery in there? or something similar to that anyway.
it didnt make a sh1t of difference IMO!

There was several modifaications and finally a different starter motor but i'm not 100% sure the starter they went to was any better IMO! and its something like £800 odd quid?!

The engines are tight and hard to turn so need a decent starter on them. most of them engines are in trucks and 24volts!

Engine idle is way too high so clean out round the throttle pedal first. then remove the cover under the boom. throttle pedal works a cable that works a pot switch bolted above the transmission. you can adjust the cable to suit there. You may find some idiot has bent the cover and its damaged the throttle pot or contacting it.

idle speed should be about 900 rpm.

There is no cold start heaters or glow plugs on it at all.
and there is no electric lift pump. lift pump is driven off the cam or timing gears i think and is very robust! its not a common rail engine either! it has unit injectors, so a decent size lift pump sends fuel to each injector, each injector is driven off the cam shaft to deliver high pressure at the nozzle and each injector is fired electrically. Thats how i understand it anyway! Never had a problem with engine to worry about other than leaking water pump, starter motors, fan hyd pump, intercooler hoses, fan belt and idler pulley bearings, fuel pipes rubbing through.
Otherwise its a fine engine

 

[ACEngineering]

I have a problem with my Manitou with Merc engine, year 2012. I just got it and I was thinking batteries are bad and I bought 2 new batteries 700 CCA and exchanged them.
It still spins the engine but does not start. When I add starter 1000A then it starts. Also idle is on 1100-1200 which is little bit high?

Does it have some heating procedure for engine ? Also does it maybe have electric pump like John Deere tractors which fills the pump ? I dont hear any buzzing sound when I turn the key. Old MLT with Perkins started a lot easier with good batteries.

@ACEngineering is the guy I hope and also I hope you read PM amd email and send me manuals for it Thanks

Ah yeah i forgot about the manuals! i could send opps and parts okay, workshop manual is too big to email. IMO Opps and parts are not expensive in paper form about £10 each. The workshop manual due to the merc engine is quite expensive i think but still worth having over loads of PDF files that are a pain in the arse to look at!

 

[2wheels]

Hello Just reading your post now i sat down and more time.

the first mercs had 2 batteries, these i recommend you replace with Varta E44 cause they have the best cranking amps i know of 780cca i think?
later mercs they fitted a big single 622 type battery in there? or something similar to that anyway.
it didnt make a sh1t of difference IMO!

There was several modifaications and finally a different starter motor but i'm not 100% sure the starter they went to was any better IMO! and its something like £800 odd quid?!

The engines are tight and hard to turn so need a decent starter on them. most of them engines are in trucks and 24volts!

Engine idle is way too high so clean out round the throttle pedal first. then remove the cover under the boom. throttle pedal works a cable that works a pot switch bolted above the transmission. you can adjust the cable to suit there. You may find some idiot has bent the cover and its damaged the throttle pot or contacting it.

idle speed should be about 900 rpm.

There is no cold start heaters or glow plugs on it at all.
and there is no electric lift pump. lift pump is driven off the cam or timing gears i think and is very robust! its not a common rail engine either! it has unit injectors, so a decent size lift pump sends fuel to each injector, each injector is driven off the cam shaft to deliver high pressure at the nozzle and each injector is fired electrically. Thats how i understand it anyway! Never had a problem with engine to worry about other than leaking water pump, starter motors, fan hyd pump, intercooler hoses, fan belt and idler pulley bearings, fuel pipes rubbing through.
Otherwise its a fine engine

that fuel injection system must be the same as the vw pd type?

 

[Timbo]

Think of it as a VW Pumpe Duse type system . The crucial thing is the ECU needs to see 300rpm cranking rpm before it will fire the injectors - after-which it'll need a few turns before a cold engine will fire. If cranking rpm falls below around 280rpm the injectors stop firing ...

 

[SteveO]

Thanks a lot for explaining. First thing I will check why idle is high, can it be adjusted at all ?
For that starter my mechanic said he will check if he can get one since he does a lot of tractors and I am from Croatia so sending it so far might take long. If I dont manage to find it I will send you PM.

Thanks again. I hope to manage it, damn thing couldnt start today with 2 new batteries and 1000A charger starter.

 

[melted welly]

Burn it

 

[ACEngineering]

Thanks a lot for explaining. First thing I will check why idle is high, can it be adjusted at all ?
For that starter my mechanic said he will check if he can get one since he does a lot of tractors and I am from Croatia so sending it so far might take long. If I dont manage to find it I will send you PM.

Thanks again. I hope to manage it, damn thing couldnt start today with 2 new batteries and 1000A charger starter.

Ah yeah you should have just said so! done a bit of export but IMO its more hassle than its worth! and god knows whats happening at the end of the month!

 

[Davy]

Heres one for you manitou experts. I've a merc engined 634 and it feels down on power a bit. I've changed the fuel filter and the gauze on top of the engine but I'm wondering if there is another gauze in the tank or somewhere in the line. Nothing feels amiss, but it use to be livelier. Travelling along the road it is struggling to get to top speed.

 

[Timbo]

Heres one for you manitou experts. I've a merc engined 634 and it feels down on power a bit. I've changed the fuel filter and the gauze on top of the engine but I'm wondering if there is another gauze in the tank or somewhere in the line. Nothing feels amiss, but it use to be livelier. Travelling along the road it is struggling to get to top speed.

Boost leak or wastegate opening prematurely, or map sensor drifted off ?

 

[ACEngineering]

Heres one for you manitou experts. I've a merc engined 634 and it feels down on power a bit. I've changed the fuel filter and the gauze on top of the engine but I'm wondering if there is another gauze in the tank or somewhere in the line. Nothing feels amiss, but it use to be livelier. Travelling along the road it is struggling to get to top speed.

Common!
Back left hand corner of engine are 2 x 90 deg unequal elbows for the intercooler pipes.
The bottom one is pee poor rubber and splits. Top one splits aswell sometimes but not as often.

Genuine hose will still be crap as they not done anything to make them better and there around £80 plus I think.

I buy silicon race spec hose for the bottom with 4 layers of reinforcing instead of rubber and 2 layers reinforcing.