warksfarmer
Member
£110/tonne for milling wheat on a realistic yield. That's rent, inputs and stubble to stubble and before BPS.
Minimum cost of cropping
- Thread starter Warp Land Farmer
- Start date
£110/tonne for milling wheat on a realistic yield. That's rent, inputs and stubble to stubble and before BPS.
glasshouse
Member
- Location
- lothians
it was £200/t for about 5 minutes
in 2012 i got around £200, but yield was under 2t/ac
at some point in the last 5 marketing years I have sold at least some wheat at £200 or more in 4 of those years - the prices have been there for quality if you got the markets right
what's a realistic yield though ? ! I reckon the answer is different for every farmer
warksfarmer
Member
3.3
glasshouse
Member
- Location
- lothians
oh, arent you clever.
not really ! if i was I would have sold it ALL at that level not just some and would have done a much better job of last year
but as long I get things right more often than I get them wrong my kids won't go hungry !
Point is the prices were there to be had for 4 years NOT the 5 mins you suggested they were
glasshouse
Member
- Location
- lothians
Maybe they were there for 4yrs, but most had sold forward at £130 ish.
we can all sell a few loads high, it is the average that matters.
i sold milling wheat at £244 in 2012, but as i said, it was yielding under two ton, as everyone round here was in 12 and 13.
i have sold organic wheat for £350 too.
The point is, we in scotland have not benefited from the £200 /ton used in headlines, as our yields were sh!t, but we are stuck with the high input costs that the big companies have stuck on us.
warksfarmer
Member
Why are you stuck with high input prices?
Just say no and change cropping to reduce the amount you need to buy.
glasshouse
Member
- Location
- lothians
change to what? all beans? grass? and buy stock?
this is not a farm that suits spring barley, otherwise i would go wall to wall concerto.
warksfarmer
Member
What about looking at 5 crops to reduce the input spend and spread things about a bit, so wheat, beans, grass, barley and peas?
Could you rent s bit out for veg production?
Where are you?
glasshouse
Member
- Location
- lothians
beans are pish, peas are suicide, and i have grass.
the inputs are required, they are just too ficking dear.
the inputs are required, they are just too ficking dear.
We are harvesting some barley today that I felt might be relevant to this thread
It is on some very poor ex opencast land, I have struggled for years to work out the best way to farm it, output is limited by many factors most of which are beyond my control in drainage, altitude, soil nutrition and short term FBT's making investment a silly idea at best
So being realistic about output I'm now growing continuous barley, and spending the absolute minimum to grow a crop
Total spend stubble to stubble plus all vc's is at just £165/ac, it's clean enough although not spotless.
so at current prices I need 1.5t/ac to cover my costs - I'm pretty sure it will manage that ! cost of production is circa £45/t
If we say rent is covered by the BPS then any excess yield over that 1.5t is my nett margin - I hope it will do 3t maybe a bit more but won't be crying if it doesn't !
I wonder how that compares to a 10t plus but much higher input both VC and stubble to stubble cost and if i might actually be better off to farm more of our land in this ways vs pushing for maximum yield all the time ?
It is on some very poor ex opencast land, I have struggled for years to work out the best way to farm it, output is limited by many factors most of which are beyond my control in drainage, altitude, soil nutrition and short term FBT's making investment a silly idea at best
So being realistic about output I'm now growing continuous barley, and spending the absolute minimum to grow a crop
Total spend stubble to stubble plus all vc's is at just £165/ac, it's clean enough although not spotless.
so at current prices I need 1.5t/ac to cover my costs - I'm pretty sure it will manage that ! cost of production is circa £45/t
If we say rent is covered by the BPS then any excess yield over that 1.5t is my nett margin - I hope it will do 3t maybe a bit more but won't be crying if it doesn't !
I wonder how that compares to a 10t plus but much higher input both VC and stubble to stubble cost and if i might actually be better off to farm more of our land in this ways vs pushing for maximum yield all the time ?
I think when posting about costs of growing a crop, then this should be omitted. In my example of c£520 for growing a crop of wheat, that included an amount for rent of £150/ac. Thats probably more than double an AHA rent for equivalent land, or a 25% deduction on an FBT rent. But a significant discount to the repayments on land worth £10k an acre.
I am only really interested in looking at ways of reducing my cost per ton, omitting rent / rental equivalents etc.
As above, the need to push for yield arises when you have a high level of "non-crop" costs, be those rents, lifestyle, drawings etc. It has been seen this year that dropping a spreader pass is quite feasible yet as my spreader doesnt depreciate then the actual business cash saved of two passes rather than three is the thin end of f-all. Similarly, if you put machinery costs in based on local contractor costs that doesnt reflect at all a) the £££ in your pocket from driving the machine or b) the £££ acruing as you build up a stock of machinery.
Coming to the conclusion that the way to reduce my cost of cropping most will be to reduce quantity of cultivation and delay drilling to a point where a single residual herbicide will do 90% of the job and if the ground is too wet by then simply switch to a spring sown crop. Will be interesting to see if my cost per ton (machinery at contractor rates and fair rent included) for spring barley will be lower than for winter barley. I have a sneeky feeling it will be, yet this will be immaterial if the grain is only worth £95/t.
In my example the rent and BPS are effectively ignored as they cancel each other out. The nett margin numbers and cost per tonne therefore completely ignore those items
I agree rent / finance and BPS are best kept out of any benchmarking as they have little to do with the efficiency or economics of the farming system employed and vary terrifically farm to farm. I cost my machinery as actuals not contractor rates as its actual that is my real cost
One of the key reasons that my barley crop example is so cheap to grow is the very low input establishment system and lower VC's spend meaning very few passes through the crop - near 50% of the fixed costs will be harvest
Yes, I am going to grow a pair and Mzuri some barley this back end. It will be along side some barley that will be conventionally drilled after a ploughed-out ryegrass ley. The ley only had c50kg/ha N on it, but I am interested to see what the weed control difference is, as herbicide cost, especially in wheat, is a *major* cost.
I often look at my actual machinery costs compared to contractor costs as I very much value my time.
I often look at my actual machinery costs compared to contractor costs as I very much value my time.
when I calculate my actual machinery costs they include the labour and fuel - all I keep out of benchmark costing is non machinery finance, rent, general overheads like office and storage and BPS
warksfarmer
Member
This is where we are really on all crops now in year 3 of this attitude. Input spend is the lowest we've seen for 10 yrs and we are still hitting target yields ...... Maybe a tad more.
Barley (winter and spring) is 2.5-3t.
Milling wheat 3.5t although seeing 3.8t as well.
Spring wheat 3t although this year gout fly will hit us but easily corrected next year with a routine insecticide at leaf 2 and it's cheap.
For wheat £35/t target inputs then stubble to stubble is £17/t to get it into the shed. Drying costs on top.
Cheap fungicide program although the shdi trial this year will be interesting. Visually today there is no difference in both Skyfall and Edgar with two trials in each field. Cut N down to 180-200kg and then protein spray if the crop looks ok but not routinely.
The crops won't win any prizes on looks but it's about profit. Visually pleasing crops are a waste of money!
don't get me wrong in that where I have land that can yield well I will (an am pushing for max yield) that is the case on most of the land we farm other than this block of barley - output is still king really IMO but not at any cost, we are lucky that herbicide spend on this farm are very low compared to what clearly some have to deal with and I also think my fixed costs are almost as low as I can get them now.
So your rent is about £70 acre this year then, which is quite a bit less than my AHA rent.
Everyone seems to think that those of us on AHA are getting it for a lot less than we really are. @statics £150 isn't double what we are paying. Not moaning, just stating facts.