More welfare nonsense

[Henarar]

Perhaps if you had looked at it in a more business mind then maybe you still maybe dairy farming?

it wasn't up to me back then, we gave up dairy farming when dad became ill and died [about the last thing farming wise he told us to do] dad was very much in charge I can tell you that
most of the time our BF and BF cross calves were worth reasonable money anyway it was only when the government f**ked things up that they were not
We sold some of those calves as stirks after he died and from what I remember they didn't make us rich but they wiped their arse

 

[Sid]

We are shut down here at the moment here are the practicalities

movement licences to sell calves to an orange market have to be applied for 5 working days before movement. Passports have to with these calves and the calves have to be under 42 days. Collections are fortnightly on a Thursday.
I will receive 30-40% less than i would get if they were from a tb free herd.

Now what mucks this precise system up is the reactor that has been on farm and therefore i can not get a licence to move calves. These will now be over 42 days, have to have a pre movement test as they were under the threshold for the tb test we just had and will be drinking salable profitable milk.
Imagine if for the same reason @Walterp couldn't sell Julies store cattle had to build a capital item like a shed, concrete, had to buy in silage/hay/cake using paid labour(or even god forbid do some work himself) as her finely tuned system struggled to cope with extra cattle for no return.

Friesian bull calves to me are not a waste product but when tb restrictions make things almost impossible to make a return and only incur cost then sometimes there is only one option.

 

[Sid]

even when they were worth less than the ear tag

our BF and BF cross calves were worth reasonable money

 

[Henarar]

I did say most of the time
Expect when the government f**ked it up for us with BSE
As it happens I fully sympathise with your above post again problems caused by a complete government f**k up

 

[unlacedgecko]

best cut a king Edward spud in half then

I'm so chippy I need a 25kg sack on each shoulder.

 

[Walterp]

The FG selected a letter from Mr Oliver Wood of Inkberrow as its lead item (Letters to the Editor 17.08.17), under the heading 'Farming Must Change Its Image'.

Mr Wood is a retired dairy farmer who, by accident, got involved in an animal rights roadshow recently. He describes how well-organised it was, with video expositions on loop showing hi-tech automated gas chambers killing unwanted chicks (Neil can guess what associations I make from that) and a cow searching desperately for its calf, after having it removed straight after calving.

Undeniably high impact stuff.

Dairy farmers suffering from cash-induced myopia on this subject might be interested to learn that our Minister, Michael Gove, is firmly on the side of increasing the rights of all sentient animals.

Social attitudes are changing, especially in a UK that may in the near future become detached from a mainland Europe markedly less sentimental about animals. Unintended Consequence abound: if Mr Gove is to be believed - and that's an entire thread on its own - DEFRA plans to establish higher welfare and environmental standards than the EU. [Laugh? I nearly fell over].

Dairy farmers have already lost the argument on shooting baby calves - saying 'there is no alternative' is just a mealy-mouthed way of saying 'but the alternative might cost me money...' This is not a sure-fire way to win the argument, but is a sure-fire way to lose it: shortsighted and greedy is the inevitable conclusion that the dispassionate observer would draw - and activists are, naturally, seldom dispassionate.

So, having lost that argument, what's next?

Chicks? Separating baby calves from their dam? Cameras in abattoirs?

 

[multi power]

Maybe people should just stop eating ?

 

[Cowabunga]

I'm looking forward to retirement.
Let them eat cake as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Dr. Alkathene]

As Snr says now and again "I wouldn't wish for another but a bloody good war would sort em out"

 

[Walterp]

As Snr says now and again "I wouldn't wish for another but a bloody good war would sort em out"

I suggest that 'a bloody good war' has sorted out mainland Europe's attitudes towards its animals (and a lot of other things).

That's kinda the point.

 

[Princess Pooper]

Maybe that's where we went wrong. Should have put them in a crush and just convinced them they had just had a big dump. Pull the calf out, drag it away and shoot it before the mother gets to even see it. That seems the perfect answer. How very efficient.

Not quite sure where you are coming from with that one and that has upset me. We have not put down any bull calves on this farm in the last 25 years apart from one. That had a broken leg calving. Most would have shot it there and then. But no, we felt guilty as it was a calving jack injury, so paid for the vet to come and plaster it but unfortunately it didn't heal. Vet came to change plaster (to allow for growth) and concluded it was infected so euthanased it. So 2 vet visits (solely for that calf, not visiting farm for any other reason) oh say £100 when we could have just shot it. I do not have time to debate this now @Pasty I got to bed at 12.15 and was up at 5.45 and have just (10 am) come in for my breakfast, due to tending new born calves - including our one bull calf. I hope you re-read my post but in the meanwhile suggest you look up why most vets recommend removing the calf (heifer or bull) from the dam at the earliest opportunity as best practice. I will explain why we do it when we have time, but I am busy today as I am hosting a visit of Defra interns who wanted to visit a farm and learn about bovine TB. Yesterday I hosted a visit from our local Mencap group. We are not cold blooded murderers here nor are most dairy farmers.

 

[Cowabunga]

Britain is not even remotely the best place to grow food for its population. I seriously question the sanity of any older person encouraging the younger generations of a livestock farm to continue doing so here. It's going to be a rough ride with far more down periods than up into the remote future.

 

[Henarar]

Dairy farmers have already lost the argument on shooting baby calves - saying 'there is no alternative'

Some dairy farmers

 

[Henarar]

Or is it the right way to go about things just to generalise with dairy farmers the same as generalising with "the English", even though according to a graph that was put on here it is a small percentage of dairy farmers and most likely with most of the things you go on about it is a small percentage of "the English"
but don't let that get in the way get your very large brush out and get tarring

 

[Wendy10]

Not quite sure where you are coming from with that one and that has upset me. We have not put down any bull calves on this farm in the last 25 years apart from one. That had a broken leg calving. Most would have shot it there and then. But no, we felt guilty as it was a calving jack injury, so paid for the vet to come and plaster it but unfortunately it didn't heal. Vet came to change plaster (to allow for growth) and concluded it was infected so euthanased it. So 2 vet visits (solely for that calf, not visiting farm for any other reason) oh say £100 when we could have just shot it. I do not have time to debate this now

I too was upset on your behalf. I can only think by looking at the time @pasty was posting that he had partaken in a night cap!
I'm also sure that @walterp will be sitting back highly amused at the controversy and back biting he has, once again, kicked off. I think it's time this thread was closed.

 

[Sid]

So looking at welfare.
Lorry today started in Cornwall and will be collecting dairy cow reactors with mine being last at 1pm.
Some of those cattle will be 22 hours from farm to slaughter in lairage overnight. To me that is unacceptable and i have told the reactor removal team manager that and also other stakeholders.
These animals will need milking tonight AND in the morning. Lactating animals deserve better. I bet they don't milk suckler cows in full milk!

Better if theu were shot on farm imho but then they wouldn't get income from the meat that they tell us is only salvage value.

 

[Henarar]

Better if theu were shot on farm imho but then they wouldn't get income from the meat that they tell us is only salvage value.

apparently they make a profit every year

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Just been complaining about the state of our gov'ts on another thread.

This puts it in perspective

You poor poor buggers- I really do feel for you, all, having to put up with this should be your 'powers that be' in lairage overnight for their neglect of such a vital issue.
I might sling a bit of around myself, but I would be in complete despair in your situation.
They just keep on letting you and your stock down

 

[roscoe erf]

I've hesitated to get involved in this as I usually suffer from foot in mouth syndrome.
QUOTE
Yep

Maybe that's where we went wrong. Should have put them in a crush and just convinced them they had just had a big dump. Pull the calf out, drag it away and shoot it before the mother gets to even see it. That seems the perfect answer. How very efficient.

Harsh and uncalled for

 

[Pasty]

Not quite sure where you are coming from with that one and that has upset me. We have not put down any bull calves on this farm in the last 25 years apart from one. That had a broken leg calving. Most would have shot it there and then. But no, we felt guilty as it was a calving jack injury, so paid for the vet to come and plaster it but unfortunately it didn't heal. Vet came to change plaster (to allow for growth) and concluded it was infected so euthanased it. So 2 vet visits (solely for that calf, not visiting farm for any other reason) oh say £100 when we could have just shot it. I do not have time to debate this now @Pasty I got to bed at 12.15 and was up at 5.45 and have just (10 am) come in for my breakfast, due to tending new born calves - including our one bull calf. I hope you re-read my post but in the meanwhile suggest you look up why most vets recommend removing the calf (heifer or bull) from the dam at the earliest opportunity as best practice. I will explain why we do it when we have time, but I am busy today as I am hosting a visit of Defra interns who wanted to visit a farm and learn about bovine TB. Yesterday I hosted a visit from our local Mencap group. We are not cold blooded murderers here nor are most dairy farmers.

Sorry, it was a poor attempt at humour. . I will delete it if requested. My apologies.