My new rotation plan

[Dockers]

Elmstead, I think that is brilliant. Says it all really ! Even more relevant with the extremes of weather we may have to cope with.

 

[Elmsted]

Whilst I understand that UK people have a chance to flog straw to Derrick et al. Given the harvest index and the often quoted building soil organic matter is there not a dichotomy of interest.
In our case we take off from each hectare only the crop we can sell after it has gone through the combine. Whereas the extreme opposite is maize silage. Which takes off an unbelievable amount of organic matter and nutrients. When at the same time people quote Rudolf etc. In no way are they as I read it saying rob the land.
Hence to a great extent my aversion to the presently trendy Bio gas industry. And most forms of so called green energy.

I truthfully belief that within an indeterminable time slot animals with 4 legs will become the preserve of the very rich and generally frowned upon as a way to use the decreasing land mass. Be it milk or meat it is just darn well inefficient. Given the conversion ratios. Whereas things like soya are 4 times more efficient.
Why do we all go to local chinky restaurant and have Peking duck, because it is a dish created from need by peasants and look at the conversion ratio compared to beef. Then in recognition of changing global religious dietary use pigs are hardly a growth area. Chickens food conversion ratio and consumption on the rise. What do they need to eat or equally cant eat.

Certainly there is scope for some goats and sheep and other four legged things to wander around on land too steep to sustain combinable cropping. At the same time N fixing legumes will be a logical step given their usage of free N and protein production.

Think this may not be what forum members think regarding rotation issues. But just some jottings that might relate to the topic.

 

[JNG]

Elmsted, on the straw issue and returning residues issues, you are definately right. But in practice its not always that easy in some places (until I buy my cross slot that is???) I definatly plan to keep as many residues as possible but when the main harvest dates for w wheat for example is late aug early sept and we have a quick turn around to planting, remembering we have a moist climate with generally high straw yields giving alot to break down or get through a drill without blocking and not to mention all the critters that it may hide. Add to that its monetry value (admitately not as high as some will claim after work/field damage/nutrient replacement etc), quite often the straw is the profit! Its a bit of a hamster wheel and difficult to stop. But most importantly for me is learning to sucessfully plant the following crop with no ill effects from previous residue, thats my biggest challange at the moment, and why I look with envy at cross slots on You Tube, although Im sure its not the complete answer also.

 

[dontknowanything]

Clive, what are the odds that you'll be wanting to do the same thing in 13 years from now?!

 

[Clive]

Clive, what are the odds that you'll be wanting to do the same thing in 13 years from now?!

Fair point ! and I guess my 16 year old boy at that point might be developing his own opinion on his hippy dads rotation !

its a 13 crop cycle though not 13 year rotation -5 of those crops being cover crops out of growing season so it takes 8 years to complete really

 

[Fuzzy]

Fair point ! and I guess my 16 year old boy at that point might be developing his own opinion on his hippy dads rotation !

its a 13 crop cycle though not 13 year rotation -5 of those crops being cover crops out of growing season so it takes 8 years to complete really

What is your current typical rotation, are you using cover crops ?

 

[Clive]

What is your current typical rotation, are you using cover crops ?

No fixed rotation but basically WW/ WOSR/ WW / speas, beans or linseed/

Have grown single species cover (mustard) a few times on lighter land the last couple of years but not extensively

 

[Fuzzy]

No fixed rotation but basically WW/ WOSR/ WW / speas, beans or linseed/

Have grown single species cover (mustard) a few times on lighter land the last couple of years but not extensively

The rotation you have is similar to us, with mustard one thing we have found is it can dry the ground out and make it rock hard, so any following crop can be a struggle to establish (fail) also volunteers can be a problem in rape. Martin Lole planted a large number of different mixes this winter (i think he said 12) but he said only one survived !! One thing is clear though that an increase in spring cropping and a big move to DD is looking like the way forward for many UK farms

 

[britt]

50/50 winter, spring drilling ?

If you are planting all that cover crop surley you will have to plant the whole farm in the autumn ?

 

[Clive]

50/50 winter, spring drilling ?

If you are planting all that cover crop surley you will have to plant the whole farm in the autumn ?

yes that's the plan - something always growing

cover crops are pretty fast to establish though - I plan to follow the combine out the field with the drill

with most ww after spring breaks with late august or september harvest dates WW will get drilled in Early October

 

[Baling Hay]

yes that's the plan - something always growing

cover crops are pretty fast to establish though - I plan to follow the combine out the field with the drill

with most ww after spring breaks with late august or september harvest dates WW will get drilled in Early October

How would broadcasting the cover crops into a standing crop 4 weeks before do I wonder?

 

[Baling Hay]

Would like opinion on my proposed rotation.

In short 50% WW 50% mostly spring break - diverse spring breaks with a long cycle

Winter Wheat

Winter OSR

Winter Wheat

cover crop

Spring Peas

Winter Wheat

cover crop

Spring Linseed

Winter Wheat

cover crop

Spring Oats

Winter Wheat

cover crop

Beans (winter or spring weather dependant)

so each break crop only gets grown once every 13 crop cycle - lots of diversity and lots of opportunity for good cover crops to build my soil as fast as possible (cover probably a multi species like Peders no 1 )

I see big cash flow and labour / machinery profile advantages in making the breaks spring planted and also see the diversity of crops as good risk management not having all my eggs in one basket etc

I see excellent opportunity to use varied chemistry to stay on top of grass weeds, I no longer need to worry about residual from WW hitting my break crops and I see little slug pressure in a rotation that only grows WOSR once every 13th crop

On a 2000ac farm there would be 200ac of each break crop and 1000ac of milling wheat - 1 man 1 tractor and 1 drill can cope with establishing all that easy direct drilling with a 50/50 spread of work between autumn and spring

I'm not sure we will miss big areas of WOSR - its such an expensive, risky and hard work crop to grow that brings problems to the soil, however keeping a smaller manageable area means we retain kerb use and can probably stay on top of wildlife better ! on a longer rotation I suspect its average performance might well be much better.


is my thinking sound or am I missing something here ?

think of how much easier winter would be for you though if you had no WOSR, no chasing pigeons and probably no need for slug pellets at all!

Also, how about replacing one of the winter wheats with a winter barley even without the WOSR?

If your sosr/pea trial goes to plan I suspect you would grow them together where you would grow the spring peas?

 

[Baling Hay]

Clive, your rotation relies heavily on first wheat performance. ( as ours does ) Not sure how sustainable it is with the input treadmill of wheat crops ? Dwaine Beck would say we should have two different crops in front of wheat ? Are the break crops profitable ? or do the first wheat margins carry them ? Can you make any sense of spring barley in your part of England ?
We are considering continuous S.Barley/S.Wheat with over winter cover crop. 6 months cover, 6 months crop ?

Would you not get a lot of volunteer barley in the wheat and vice versa?

 

[Clive]

think of how much easier winter would be for you though if you had no WOSR, no chasing pigeons and probably no need for slug pellets at all!

Also, how about replacing one of the winter wheats with a winter barley even without the WOSR?

If your sosr/pea trial goes to plan I suspect you would grow them together where you would grow the spring peas?

life without (or at the very least with less) WOSR certainly sounds appealing !!

If the pea/ SOSR trail goes well the pea slot in the rotation would be that companion mix

 

[warksfarmer]

Would like opinion on my proposed rotation.

In short 50% WW 50% mostly spring break - diverse spring breaks with a long cycle

Winter Wheat

Winter OSR

Winter Wheat

cover crop

Spring Peas

Winter Wheat

cover crop

Spring Linseed

Winter Wheat

cover crop

Spring Oats

Winter Wheat

cover crop

Beans (winter or spring weather dependant)

so each break crop only gets grown once every 13 crop cycle - lots of diversity and lots of opportunity for good cover crops to build my soil as fast as possible (cover probably a multi species like Peders no 1 )

I see big cash flow and labour / machinery profile advantages in making the breaks spring planted and also see the diversity of crops as good risk management not having all my eggs in one basket etc

I see excellent opportunity to use varied chemistry to stay on top of grass weeds, I no longer need to worry about residual from WW hitting my break crops and I see little slug pressure in a rotation that only grows WOSR once every 13th crop

On a 2000ac farm there would be 200ac of each break crop and 1000ac of milling wheat - 1 man 1 tractor and 1 drill can cope with establishing all that easy direct drilling with a 50/50 spread of work between autumn and spring

I'm not sure we will miss big areas of WOSR - its such an expensive, risky and hard work crop to grow that brings problems to the soil, however keeping a smaller manageable area means we retain kerb use and can probably stay on top of wildlife better ! on a longer rotation I suspect its average performance might well be much better.


is my thinking sound or am I missing something here ?

Wouldn't it be simpler just to do:

w wheat = 1000ac

w barley = 500ac

spring crop = 250ac

cover crop = 250ac

So your getting a cover crop (or giving the land a break from a input hungry crop as I think it should be called) every 4 years? You can mix the spring crop up a bit so that you grow a different one every year to market requirements, but by having the w barley your benefiting from the higher wheat price because barley will only be £20-£30 behind at most so effectively there is 1500ac per year that would have a commodity market price of around £180/t average?

I appreciate its more airing on the side of growing for markets rather than building soils up BUT as you quite rightly said on another thread at this moment in time yield is king, so you might as well grow a fair bit of the stuff that, that comment is applicable to??

No idea what the gross income of your proposed rotation might be but just very quickly 1500ac x 3.3t/ac average x £180/t = £891,000.

 

[Baling Hay]

Wouldn't it be simpler just to do:

w wheat = 1000ac

w barley = 500ac

spring crop = 250ac

cover crop = 250ac

So your getting a cover crop (or giving the land a break from a input hungry crop as I think it should be called) every 4 years? You can mix the spring crop up a bit so that you grow a different one every year to market requirements, but by having the w barley your benefiting from the higher wheat price because barley will only be £20-£30 behind at most so effectively there is 1500ac per year that would have a commodity market price of around £180/t average?

I appreciate its more airing on the side of growing for markets rather than building soils up BUT as you quite rightly said on another thread at this moment in time yield is king, so you might as well grow a fair bit of the stuff that, that comment is applicable to??

No idea what the gross income of your proposed rotation might be but just very quickly 1500ac x 3.3t/ac average x £180/t = £891,000.

I am bit confused as to how that would look in term of years, do you mean:

WW, WW, WB followed by cover crop, Spring crop?

 

[Clive]

Wouldn't it be simpler just to do:

w wheat = 1000ac

w barley = 500ac

spring crop = 250ac

cover crop = 250ac

So your getting a cover crop (or giving the land a break from a input hungry crop as I think it should be called) every 4 years? You can mix the spring crop up a bit so that you grow a different one every year to market requirements, but by having the w barley your benefiting from the higher wheat price because barley will only be £20-£30 behind at most so effectively there is 1500ac per year that would have a commodity market price of around £180/t average?

I appreciate its more airing on the side of growing for markets rather than building soils up BUT as you quite rightly said on another thread at this moment in time yield is king, so you might as well grow a fair bit of the stuff that, that comment is applicable to??

No idea what the gross income of your proposed rotation might be but just very quickly 1500ac x 3.3t/ac average x £180/t = £891,000.

why grow W barley ? it steals a first wheat slot and costs more to grow / yield less and sells at a discount to wheat ?? I don't really care about gross income as I think rotations stacked to maximise it come at a big cost of increased input spend - I bet over a 10 year period what I'm proposing outperforms a ww/wosr rotation

less spring crops also misses the chance to grow more cover crop and OM as fast as possible and it harder on cashflow and needs more input spend - I am thinking seriously now about adding another 4 legged crop into this rotation however !!

Winter Wheat

Winter OSR

Winter Wheat

cover crop and Sheep

Spring Peas

Winter Wheat

cover crop and Sheep

Spring Linseed

Winter Wheat

cover crop and Sheep

Spring Oats

Winter Wheat

cover crop and Sheep

Beans (winter or spring weather dependant)

 

[rob1]

why grow W barley ? it steals a first wheat slot and costs more to grow / yield less ?? I don't really care about gross income as I think rotations stacked to maximise it come at a big cost of increased input spend - I bet over a 10 year period what I'm proposing outperforms a ww/wosr rotation

also misses the chance to grow more cover crop and OM as fast as possible and it harder on cashflow and needs more input spend - I am thinking seriously now about adding another 4 legged crop into this rotation however !!

Winter Wheat

Winter OSR

Winter Wheat

cover crop and Sheep

Spring Peas

Winter Wheat

cover crop and Sheep

Spring Linseed

Winter Wheat

cover crop and Sheep

Spring Oats

Winter Wheat

cover crop and Sheep

Beans (winter or spring weather dependant)

Now your just being silly sheep ?? great if they are someone elses and you can get hold of them xmas morning when the buggers escape ! or on a plate with mint sauce

 

[Clive]

Now your just being silly sheep ?? great if they are someone elses and you can get hold of them xmas morning when the buggers escape ! or on a plate with mint sauce

they wont be mine !! and my mobile phone has an "off" button !!

 

[rob1]

they wont be mine !! and my mobile phone has an "off" button !!

Mine would need a F off button, used ti keep a dozen for the freezer created more work than 120 cows