New livestock EID measures announced by Michael Gove

[spin cycle]

yea right

thats not how they do it?...how's it done then?

 

[gone up the hill]

Good post. I was questioning guth attitude towards batch treating livestock, we treat anything as a batch for summer worming etc but you still have to know the individual id of each animal. Guth was suggesting mark the animals but their individual id is not required.

You don't need to write down every number for cattle that are batch treated ( ie say worming ) under the current rules, ( unless these rules have changed very recently ) that will of course change when Eid comes in no doubt,

 

[gone up the hill]

strikes a chord with me as i was thinking today about various organisations that 'don't practice what they preach'

the govt reforms everything but not the electoral system
rt says it's important to be transparent to consumers but keeps it's internal decision making secret
how does the nfu elect it's president?....one member one vote?

Yep a very good point, farmers are backward according to Frank the wool because they don't want to spend thousands on Eid that wont help improve profits one iota yet the NFU are very forward thinking in that they wont embrace social media to engage with members.....

Eid tagging is a classic example why the NFU big wigs don't want grassroots members to have a say via social media for example because if they did it would show that the vast majority of members would be against Eid tagging and Minettes pet project would be scuppered...

Strange how Guy Smith wont answer any questions put to him from members on here ref the NFU supporting/ helping draw up these new rules...

 

[Henarar]

thats not how they do it?...how's it done then?

smoke filled room and a few drinks

 

[spin cycle]

smoke filled room and a few drinks

no seriously how do they do it?....read summat about 90 council members?....are these elected by the members?

 

[gone up the hill]

no seriously how do they do it?....read summat about 90 council members?....are these elected by the members?

Old boys club, the elections are all sown up long before they even take place.

 

[spin cycle]

Old boys club, the elections are all sown up long before they even take place.

ok......officially how is done....i'm curious

 

[gone up the hill]

ok......officially how is done....i'm curious

Basically like I said, thou officially they will say that isn't the case!

 

[Henarar]

ok......officially how is done....i'm curious

ask @An Gof for the bells and whistles version

 

[spin cycle]

ask @An Gof for the bells and whistles version

who did you vote for minnete or guy?

 

[JD-Kid]

Aye they stick their sub where the sun dont shine no fuking use anyway.

cattle and deer here on EID cattle and in some states sheep on EID with no subs aussie there was some upgrade grants for updateing scales to EID

here in stock book put in batchs drenched dipped etc etc if giveing vet med's at lambing etc the animal has to be IDed

 

[Henarar]

who did you vote for minnete or guy?

I didn't get a vote but told Guy who I would have voted for if I could

 

[spin cycle]

I didn't get a vote but told Guy who I would have voted for if I could

why couldn't you vote...thought you were a nfu member

 

[Henarar]

why couldn't you vote...thought you were a nfu member

I am but members don't get a vote
Can't be trusted with such a thing

 

[spin cycle]

I am but members don't get a vote
Can't be trusted with such a thing

right i've googled it ......members vote for delegates.....delegates vote for the president

 

[Henarar]

right i've googled it ......members vote for delegates.....delegates vote for the president

Sort of
Don't get many delegates to vote for though

 

[Kiwi Pete]

cattle and deer here on EID cattle and in some states sheep on EID with no subs aussie there was some upgrade grants for updateing scales to EID

here in stock book put in batchs drenched dipped etc etc if giveing vet med's at lambing etc the animal has to be IDed

No need for facts on this one anymore JD

You will be an anti-farmer if you start delving into the truth too much, just laugh and start saving for your replacement tag printer-outer

This is how software here can work.
For meds like drenches etc, you'd just form a "group" of animals and treat the whole group in one click of the mouse or tap of the phone, the treatments would be allocated to each individual animal in that group.
Yes there might be a bit of work in forming the group in the first place, either by scanning each animal or manually inputting each number. But unless you chop and change animals from group to group often, the group can stay the same for however long you want.
You could even form groups on the puter by putting in certain parameters like certain ages/breads/ gender etc etc, this would give you a list to form a group.

So for example I've shortly got 25 yearlings off to enviro grazing, so I just form a group on the reader, those cattle don't have eid tags so I just punch the last 3 numbers of the tag in the reader and it auto fills the rest of the number. Once the group is done I can record the group treated with spot on with one click and say a wormer with another click. Any further treatments through the season to the group can just be applied to the group.

There certainly wouldn't be any need to enter every number every time the animals are treated, the only need to do that would be one off treatments to individual animals, like antibiotics.

You must be one of them anti-farmers Dave!
Was going to point most of that out but couldn't be biffed writing it down... ...someone thinks he has to write all the numbers down once EID comes in, give me strength

would this new digital system mean that mean that anyone can search the tag number and see all the meds the animal has ever had

Down here that depends who can view your herd records, I would imagine the correct answer would be a "no, but you can send the files"
The guy I bought cattle off has access to mine so he can see which bulls have bred the most growthy cattle, anytime I weigh them he can have access to any new DLWG info, and if I did treatments then I could let Michael see it too, but it is only because it is so easy to do that I bother.
-- I wouldn't if it wasn't a win-win deal but the stores I buy should improve as a result of the accurate feedback.
As said before if it involved even writing down individual DLWG I wouldn't bother, let alone sharing it out, I run them all in one mob so I suppose indirectly it is shaping our future same as a breeder finisher does "in-house"

ANY system can be fudgeed up with intent or incorrect data being entered, RFID doesn't mean it can't happen, it does possibly replace some human error possibilities but that is about all

Having tried to read bloody dirty brass tags in fluffy ears in the past I know which I prefer now I am used to the idea, it can be basically no different or it can be what you make of it as a tool.
Had to do a herd read of 750 dairy cows because the previous manager had let the records slide to the extent we had about 150 deads and culls in the herd still the lazy fecker but LIC/Minda lady came and had the records all fixed by the time I had hosed out..

Before and after on a deer operation though, you see the difference more clearly than with some cattle you can walk up to, that is for sure.

First thing IMO that would have to change is the daft rule about not having a birth ID number on the RFID tag, I can usually figure out intentions but that one sounds daft to me.
That type of crappy rule is why you would need to have everyone with a reader.
Most cattle and deer here would have the birth ID on the EID:
eg RTYU-18-184 for the 184th tag in 2018 from whoever is RTYU - so you can still remember it to enter in manually if treating it

Sorry that was a lot of words and hope it didn't sound condescing, just it struck me much of the "argument" was really down to the assumptions it would need everyone with two calves to need to own a reader and that is wrong, the only thing a farmer would "need" is to order different tags if the pro's have all the gadgets at marts and abbatoirs etc.. they handle all movement recording for me, I get an email to check the records are OK and confirm.

Only paperwork is the Animal Status Declaration that goes with them (or they don't go anywhere)

 

[JD-Kid]

You will be an anti-farmer if you start delving into the truth too much, just laugh and start saving for your replacement tag printer-outer

just got to be simple if tag is replaced then animal is not tracked had 25 no reads which could be replaced with a pairing to old numbers but also had 25 tags missing good luck with ever working out whos who on that

if the system is too tough it makes people lie and not enter data etc

the aussies will let people replace with a pink tag i think so shows it eather brought in or it's lost a tag on the owners holding the new tag has the owners number on it ..in the case of brought in it will also have last owners tag not too sure if both EID cos readers would have a fit trying to read to tags

 

[Lovegoodstock]

I can see the compulsory scanning of meds and animals used on becoming a backward step and creating more falsifying records. Those that don't embrace technology are living in dark ages according to @Frank-the-Wool , maybe so in some eyes, but whilst far younger than average age farmer I don't see any need or benefit in almost the large majority of available technology, rely on stockmanship and memory and a brain and expect a profit of 100 pound per acre before outside interests. The compulsory scanning of meds, if anyone like me, run 3 sites very close together but say a calf with pneumonia you jab it at site a , scanner in house, your lambing and have 80 lamb that day, and the next, then another calf with pneumonia , then 70 lamb,the next day the weather is better so get those lambs out and those young calves, then oh sh!t they were jabbed, don't tell me im wrong and everyone is perfect, they will scan the next two calves, where as back of fag packet the number would be down, any system pen or paper or ultra modern tech is still dependant on its user, eid with someone that treats cattle with fluke drench but forgot to charge wands batteries will scan another batch, all I think it will really encourage is the useage of black market drugs that my vet informs me is in surprising wide spread use, down to the incoming advances in "recording"!!

 

[Kiwi Pete]

just got to be simple if tag is replaced then animal is not tracked had 25 no reads which could be replaced with a pairing to old numbers but also had 25 tags missing good luck with ever working out whos who on that

if the system is too tough it makes people lie and not enter data etc

the aussies will let people replace with a pink tag i think so shows it eather brought in or it's lost a tag on the owners holding the new tag has the owners number on it ..in the case of brought in it will also have last owners tag not too sure if both EID cos readers would have a fit trying to read to tags

Yeah, I was always surprised that there is no requirement to record a re-tagging or reassignment on the animal's records, a wee loophole that in theory we could exploit?
All seems like a big storm in a shot-glass to me, numbers can wear off tags, brass tags as well, our dog's microchip doesn't read, a piece of paper can get lost, burnt in a fire, or blow out a window

Nothing works if you want it to fail