New permitted development right from 6th April 2014

[caveman]

Surely a council can't refuse against a precedent set by the inspectorate on appeal?

 

[rob1]

Surely a council can't refuse against a precedent set by the inspectorate on appeal?

Our old barn that caused a ten year battle was decided by the inspector not to be curtilage listed which backed up ALL case law on the subject yet the council just say that was just her opinion and still continue to try and call it that and then tried to get it listed in its on right, they will say whatever they want whenever they want to whoever they want will change their mind to suit their agenda and ignore any law they want with total impunity. I spent hours and hours researching planning stuff and was amazed by the stuff they do and worse get away with

 

[Merlin]

Refused again, now need structural calculations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Nearly]

Barstewards.

 

[Forever Fendt]

Surely a council can't refuse against a precedent set by the inspectorate on appeal?

those jealous little men seem to do as they like

Refused again, now need structural calculations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

actual calculations or a structure report

 

[Merlin]

Actual calculations, we have the only planning officer that wants it in the County or anywhere in the Country for that matter, Unless anyone knows different! Needless to say we will do it and submit again!

 

[Bruce Almighty]

Not far from here, this has been granted
(Archers fans may recognise the village)

http://www.sheldonbosley.co.uk/property/index.php?action=listingview&listingID=2326&cTab=0

I Watch this thread with interest, all modern hotels, Holiday Inns, Premier Inns are portal framed buildings. Why are planners so obstructive ? Is it jealousy ?

 

[caveman]

Refused again, now need structural calculations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You'll need that for regs anyways. Yes?

 

[Nearly]

Not far from here, this has been granted
(Archers fans may recognise the village)

http://www.sheldonbosley.co.uk/property/index.php?action=listingview&listingID=2326&cTab=0

I Watch this thread with interest, all modern hotels, Holiday Inns, Premier Inns are portal framed buildings. Why are planners so obstructive ? Is it jealousy ?

They've had this imposed on them from above and are doing everything they can to refuse every one.

It's probably been covered before but 150sqm per dwelling if 3 applied for, can I apply for 1 at 450sqm instead ?

 

[Merlin]

You'll need that for regs anyways. Yes?

Yes we will need those, but it should not have been necessary at this stage, the plus side is that it will be another issue sorted for anyone wanting to buy it!

 

[lizzieS]

Is it just as easy to go for proper planning?

I have a couple of old buildings I would like to convert in the farm yard. I just wonder whether its worth all the hasstle and restrictions, and its better to go for full planning and build it a bit more how I want it?

No because we've been told we definitely wouldn't get it through proper planning. We are in a green belt and apparently not in the envelope of the village.......even though the house on the opposite side of the farm drive has just got planning for and built 3 houses in his garden! This is what annoys me. He just built those houses to fill his own pocket. They don't fit in with the village, they extend the village and there were lots of objections as they now block peoples view. Ours is in the middle of the farm yard, doesn't affect anyone else at all, not one person objected (not even the parish council) and is pretty much essential for me to be able to stay in the village so that im near to the farm, especially at lambing time when I'm out all hours of the day.

So the guy from the planning inspectorate was booked in to come and see it today. I was hoping to dispel a few truths that the uneducated planning officer was spouting (like 'it must be a stable because it has a stable door'). Anyway we were out sorting some sheep in the village yesterday when we got a call from the architect that has been doing our application to say that they were at the farm. We rushed back but they had gone. Looked back on the CCTV and they arrived and wandered through the yard to have a look by themselves and then left. I'm fuming. We've not heard anything since so don't know why they came on the wrong day or if they're coming back or not. Been waiting for something to finally happen since it got validated in June and now this!

 

[rob1]

No because we've been told we definitely wouldn't get it through proper planning. We are in a green belt and apparently not in the envelope of the village.......even though the house on the opposite side of the farm drive has just got planning for and built 3 houses in his garden! This is what annoys me. He just built those houses to fill his own pocket. They don't fit in with the village, they extend the village and there were lots of objections as they now block peoples view. Ours is in the middle of the farm yard, doesn't affect anyone else at all, not one person objected (not even the parish council) and is pretty much essential for me to be able to stay in the village so that im near to the farm, especially at lambing time when I'm out all hours of the day.

So the guy from the planning inspectorate was booked in to come and see it today. I was hoping to dispel a few truths that the uneducated planning officer was spouting (like 'it must be a stable because it has a stable door'). Anyway we were out sorting some sheep in the village yesterday when we got a call from the architect that has been doing our application to say that they were at the farm. We rushed back but they had gone. Looked back on the CCTV and they arrived and wandered through the yard to have a look by themselves and then left. I'm fuming. We've not heard anything since so don't know why they came on the wrong day or if they're coming back or not. Been waiting for something to finally happen since it got validated in June and now this!

Who came with the inspector? was the council rep there at the same time, if so he must have been given notice of the change as your architect, I would be having very strong words with him about not letting you know, if it goes against you I would tink you would have a very strong case to get it over turned in court due to a failure of due process

 

[Merlin]

I know how frustrating it can be , but even if you were there YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO SPEAK TO THE INSPECTOR UNLESS HE ASKS YOU A QUESTION! No conversation is allowed at all so you would not have been able to put your case. I have been there twice, one at Public Inquiry and one Hearing (we won both!) . That is why the planning system needs to be overhauled. If you do not get everything in at the application stage you are quite frankly wasting your time. They say that the appeals system takes a long time, well it will do until they do something with it!!

 

[Forever Fendt]

Yes but the local planning officer was present so therefore it was unfair as she could have influenced him and no one would know.
Anyway they are sending a different inspector for another visit now to make it fair.

The whole thing has been a mess from beginning to end for us. We hired the architect who had got the planning passed for the houses across the road because he supposedly knew the planning officer well and he'd had success with those houses. Anyway, ours was turned down straight away initially because they said it was a stable. We couldn't work out where they'd got that from and the architect was really annoyed. We decided to appeal but he didn't hand that in until the deadline day. Then once that went up online all the other associated documents were put on. I came across the original application he'd done and found that for 'what was the previous use of the building' he'd put stable and tack room!!!!! WHAT! For a start it wasn't and why the hell would he put that when he knew you weren't allowed to change the use of a stable! So basically it was his fault it was turned down in the first place. If we'd written the application ourselves it would've probably been passed. I was fuming, especially because he's still saying he can't imagine where they've got the idea of a stable from!!

It now turns out that the inspectors had come on the right day but he told us the wrong day!

if any of that is in writing tell him you are going to contact any trade association he may be in and ask for details of his professional indemnity insurance as you want this sorting out

 

[Kidds]

Possibly a dumbass question but

The maximum floor space that may be converted under this permitted development right is 450 m2 of floor space of a building or buildings within a single established agricultural unit.

This floor space is footprint of the building isn't it?
ie if the building has a footprint of 150m2 and is 3 stories high the floor space is 150m2 rather than 450m2.
It only includes the building itself, not any hardstanding that may be there or planned?

 

[Merlin]

Possibly a dumbass question but

This floor space is footprint of the building isn't it?
ie if the building has a footprint of 150m2 and is 3 stories high the floor space is 150m2 rather than 450m2.
It only includes the building itself, not any hardstanding that may be there or planned?

Sadly not, good try though!

 

[Nearly]

Possibly a dumbass question but

This floor space is footprint of the building isn't it?
ie if the building has a footprint of 150m2 and is 3 stories high the floor space is 150m2 rather than 450m2.
It only includes the building itself, not any hardstanding that may be there or planned?

can you not get 2 at 225m2 or one at 450m2 though?

 

[Kidds]

Well it obviously was a dumbass question but I really did think floorspace was measured as the buildings footprint.
Reason I asked was I got a preview of an application last night and couldn't figure out how they got the floorspace so high.
Just goes to show how you do need good advice on these matters and a good advisor will/should assume you know nothing on the subject.

 

[nickf]

Well it obviously was a dumbass question but I really did think floorspace was measured as the buildings footprint.
Reason I asked was I got a preview of an application last night and couldn't figure out how they got the floorspace so high.
Just goes to show how you do need good advice on these matters and a good advisor will/should assume you know nothing on the subject.

My consultant told me that it is the footprint that must be below 450m2, it does not count if the internal floors are over this area.

 

[Kidds]

My consultant told me that it is the footprint that must be below 450m2, it does not count if the internal floors are over this area.

It wasn't a dumbass question then.
So what is the answer, the threshold for needing full planning rather than class MB permitted development is 450m2. Is this footprint of the building as it stands or area of floors in finished conversion?