New zealand border leiester sheep

[Devil's advocate]

How popular are Border Leiester sheep in New zealand

Are they perhaps closer to our BFL rather than BL

I note they are not included in any of the bewildering number of composites. Look better than Friesland or Finn to me?

 

[spin cycle]

How popular are Border Leiester sheep in New zealand

Are they perhaps closer to our BFL rather than BL

I note they are not included in any of the bewildering number of composites. Look better than Friesland or Finn to me?

why would you compare them to friesland or finn

 

[Ysgythan]

How popular are Border Leiester sheep in New zealand

Are they perhaps closer to our BFL rather than BL

I note they are not included in any of the bewildering number of composites. Look better than Friesland or Finn to me?

aren’t they the sire of the Coopworths? @Global ovine?

 

[Nithsdale]

Not sure about NZ but Australia the BL is a very good sheep.

Members of the society here wanted to import Aus BL blood a few years back to try and improve the breed before it gets wiped out... but met too much opposition from older members who know best (the old darts who have ruined the breed)

 

[Ysgythan]

Not sure about NZ but Australia the BL is a very good sheep.

Members of the society here wanted to import Aus BL blood a few years back to try and improve the breed before it gets wiped out... but met too much opposition from older members who know best (the old darts who have ruined the breed)

f**k em, just do it

 

[Devil's advocate]

why would you compare them to friesland or finn

Because that is what the breeders of composites use for fertility & milk yeild

 

[spin cycle]

Because that is what the breeders of composites use for fertility & milk yeild

well you live /learn what composites ......bl isn't particularly prolific is it

 

[neilo]

well you live /learn what composites ......bl isn't particularly prolific is it

highlanders and EasyDams (whatever they are called at home) that I know of, but in most composite programs worldwide to inject prolificacy & milkiness (& big bags, soft feet, etc).

 

[Devil's advocate]

well you live /learn what composites ......bl isn't particularly prolific is it

Well welsh halfbreds certainly have the edge on welsh mountain sheep

 

[Devil's advocate]

highlanders and EasyDams (whatever they are called at home) that I know of, but in most composite programs worldwide to inject prolificacy & milkiness (& big bags, soft feet, etc).

Exactly Neil.

Friesland is for milking & BL for "improving" other breeds. So which would you breed into a composite?

But the breeding companies will know what they are doing, just need someone to explain.

 

[spin cycle]

i was a bit scarred by scotch halfbreds as a student hence my distrust .......queen of sheep not popular no more though for some reason

 

[neilo]

Exactly Neil.

Friesland is for milking & BL for "improving" other breeds. So which would you breed into a composite?

But the breeding companies will know what they are doing, just need someone to explain.

At risk of upsetting @Agrivator , I’m not sure that a Border Leicester improves anything, other than the size of the ears. They don’t have enough lambs to have much impact on their progeny’s prolificacy, their teeth dropping out early will reduce longevity, and their size will make the composites inefficiently big.

Apart from that though.....

 

[Nithsdale]

At risk of upsetting @Agrivator , I’m not sure that a Border Leicester improves anything, other than the size of the ears. They don’t have enough lambs to have much impact on their progeny’s prolificacy, their teeth dropping out early will reduce longevity, and their size will make the composites inefficiently big.

Apart from that though.....

Whure of a long ear for not much milk

 

[MDL POWERUP]

At risk of upsetting @Agrivator , I’m not sure that a Border Leicester improves anything, other than the size of the ears. They don’t have enough lambs to have much impact on their progeny’s prolificacy, their teeth dropping out early will reduce longevity, and their size will make the composites inefficiently big.

Apart from that though.....

I have 6 border Leicester sheep, 2 are great, 4 are terrible at best. Lambing percentage was 183% and I'm left with one bloody good tup lamb and 2 what I would describe as pygmy lambs. The tup however has left great lambs to the cheviots and I kept a few half bred shearlings back which scanned twins and raised good lambs.
So I would say there are good BL out there but they aren't easy to find and the price tag of females means if you buy the crap people don't want to put them in the fat ring. I've come to the conclusion I'll have 1 ewe left by next lambing and the tup. The rest are going.

 

[Devil's advocate]

But are the new zealand or australlian ones better or do they have the same problems.

No one has ever tried to sell me a Coopworth which is odd, because various companies advertise a large range of composites.

 

[Devil's advocate]

At risk of upsetting @Agrivator , I’m not sure that a Border Leicester improves anything, other than the size of the ears. They don’t have enough lambs to have much impact on their progeny’s prolificacy, their teeth dropping out early will reduce longevity, and their size will make the composites inefficiently big.

Apart from that though.....

My Hartlines are medium sized and carry BL blood.

Frieslands, I would presume will be a decent/large size.

 

[Global ovine]

aren’t they the sire of the Coopworths? @Global ovine?

Yes. BL were a very popular crossing breed post WW2 when the Romney was a low productivity boof headed breed in NZ. That breed now very different in all ways.
BL now very minor in NZ, but still big in Aussie for crossing with Merino.

 

[Agrivator]

The Border Leicester breeders had the chance to introduce some Finnish Landrace blood in the 70s. Had they done so, they wouldn't have lost ground to the BFL - first as a cross on the Blackface and latterly with the Cheviot. Is there still a demand for BLs on Welsh ewes? I have seen Welsh Halfbreds which were just as impressive as Scotch Halfbreds.

 

[Devil's advocate]

The Border Leicester breeders had the chance to introduce some Finnish Landrace blood in the 70s. Had they done so, they wouldn't have lost ground to the BFL - first as a cross on the Blackface and latterly with the Cheviot. Is there still a demand for BLs on Welsh ewes? I have seen Welsh Halfbreds which were just as impressive as Scotch Halfbreds.

But the British BL lost ground because the showring harmed the breed.

I was wondering if the Australlian BL was actually closer to our BFL breed.

BFL after all only an off shoot of the BL.

 

[neilo]

I have 6 border Leicester sheep, 2 are great, 4 are terrible at best. Lambing percentage was 183% and I'm left with one bloody good tup lamb and 2 what I would describe as pygmy lambs. The tup however has left great lambs to the cheviots and I kept a few half bred shearlings back which scanned twins and raised good lambs.
So I would say there are good BL out there but they aren't easy to find and the price tag of females means if you buy the crap people don't want to put them in the fat ring. I've come to the conclusion I'll have 1 ewe left by next lambing and the tup. The rest are going.

A lambing percentage of 183% is fine of course, but not high enough to warrant being used to inject prolificacy into a composite. That’s why hyper-prolific breeds like the Finn are used, where a tiny percentage of those bloodlines infer a decent lift in numbers.