Next years lambing

[ford4000]

85% of my problems this year were from ewes with AF blood :/ unfortunately their mainly yearlings and 3yo’s but depending how many genuine culls I have the whole lot of AF’s will be gone. This year we didn’t notch the ears on any AF ewe lambs born as we don’t want to keep any more.

My oldest ones are 3 year olds too and I've tagged 98 possible replacement aberfield x ewe lambs again this year, I'm just going to have to put up with them till I can replace them.

 

[S J H]

I thought aberfields were the rubbish?

 

[Aspiring Peasant]

That's interesting my experience would be the opposite. More lleyns here and gonna stop buying/breeding mules. My mules were inclined to take off with one lamb and leave one behind but that may be more hunger than anything else. Had other well fed lleyns a few years ago and they were terrible. The wee plain ones i have now are a joy to feed and lamb
Saying that there is no nicer sight than a good mule with a pair of good texel lambs running after them. Just wish mine would last longer and not eat as much and of course were a wee bit cheaper to buy.

When we started the flock 7 year ago we bought mules as they are the most numerous type of sheep around here. These are north of England mules bred out of Swaledale ewes. The first year we only had 53 ewes and sold 101 lambs. The main problem I saw with the mules was depreciation cost as they are dear to buy. So we started keeping texel gimmers out of them and found them to be almost as good maternally but producing a slightly higher value lamb. Then through reading things on here I thought if we changed to Lleyns we would have a ewe that was as good as the texel/mule, but be self replacing and thus minimal replacement cost. So we bought 50 shearlings from 3 different flocks including some of the most well known breeders and a commercial self replacing flock that lambs outside etc etc.

They do produce good lambs especially now we have switched to cross bred beltex/texel tups and I will keep them while they are productive but I won't buy anymore or breed them pure. They are just harder work than mules or the first cross from them. In this bad weather recently the mules maternal instinct from their Swaledale mothers showed through. They were the ewes who had their lambs tucked under a wall or hedge while they were off grazing rather than the lambs trailing around miserably after them. Last week highlighted it for me when I found a lamb obviously lost and located its Lleyn mother two fields away with her other lamb. She had wondered off and left one behind! I then found 2 lambs laid together under a holly bush with no mothers in sight. My cursing at the likelihood of wasting another half hour trying to find their mother was interrupted by the loud bleating of their mule mother as she came galloping through the gate from the other field because she'd seen me approach her lambs. There's lots of other subtle ways you can tell mothering instinct. If we let ewes out of a trailer and the lambs are in the front compartment the mules will fight to get back in the trailer whereas the Lleyns will be legging it down the hedge back. So you waste time having to bring them back. If you pick a mules lamb up it's mother will follow you through thick and thin, a Lleyn is more likely to run off.

The mules are also lasting much better, the Lleyns have a higher proportion of prolapses and mastitis.

I can only speak as I've found but in my experience a lot of the criticism on here of mules is ill founded. So for next year we will have a nucleus of mules to breed replacements by belted x texel tups but will also keep their 3/4 bred offspring for breeding as well.

 

[Sheep92]

When we started the flock 7 year ago we bought mules as they are the most numerous type of sheep around here. These are north of England mules bred out of Swaledale ewes. The first year we only had 53 ewes and sold 101 lambs. The main problem I saw with the mules was depreciation cost as they are dear to buy. So we started keeping texel gimmers out of them and found them to be almost as good maternally but producing a slightly higher value lamb. Then through reading things on here I thought if we changed to Lleyns we would have a ewe that was as good as the texel/mule, but be self replacing and thus minimal replacement cost. So we bought 50 shearlings from 3 different flocks including some of the most well known breeders and a commercial self replacing flock that lambs outside etc etc.

They do produce good lambs especially now we have switched to cross bred beltex/texel tups and I will keep them while they are productive but I won't buy anymore or breed them pure. They are just harder work than mules or the first cross from them. In this bad weather recently the mules maternal instinct from their Swaledale mothers showed through. They were the ewes who had their lambs tucked under a wall or hedge while they were off grazing rather than the lambs trailing around miserably after them. Last week highlighted it for me when I found a lamb obviously lost and located its Lleyn mother two fields away with her other lamb. She had wondered off and left one behind! I then found 2 lambs laid together under a holly bush with no mothers in sight. My cursing at the likelihood of wasting another half hour trying to find their mother was interrupted by the loud bleating of their mule mother as she came galloping through the gate from the other field because she'd seen me approach her lambs. There's lots of other subtle ways you can tell mothering instinct. If we let ewes out of a trailer and the lambs are in the front compartment the mules will fight to get back in the trailer whereas the Lleyns will be legging it down the hedge back. So you waste time having to bring them back. If you pick a mules lamb up it's mother will follow you through thick and thin, a Lleyn is more likely to run off.

The mules are also lasting much better, the Lleyns have a higher proportion of prolapses and mastitis.

I can only speak as I've found but in my experience a lot of the criticism on here of mules is ill founded. So for next year we will have a nucleus of mules to breed replacements by belted x texel tups but will also keep their 3/4 bred offspring for breeding as well.

The mule gets a lot of criticism here but iv always found them to be excellent mothers and good milkers, only problem i had with them was their cost of purchase every year and the bother of buying draft hill ewes to breed replacements
Still have a fair few texel mule ewes here and they have impressed me the most this spring

 

[hally]

When we started the flock 7 year ago we bought mules as they are the most numerous type of sheep around here. These are north of England mules bred out of Swaledale ewes. The first year we only had 53 ewes and sold 101 lambs. The main problem I saw with the mules was depreciation cost as they are dear to buy. So we started keeping texel gimmers out of them and found them to be almost as good maternally but producing a slightly higher value lamb. Then through reading things on here I thought if we changed to Lleyns we would have a ewe that was as good as the texel/mule, but be self replacing and thus minimal replacement cost. So we bought 50 shearlings from 3 different flocks including some of the most well known breeders and a commercial self replacing flock that lambs outside etc etc.

They do produce good lambs especially now we have switched to cross bred beltex/texel tups and I will keep them while they are productive but I won't buy anymore or breed them pure. They are just harder work than mules or the first cross from them. In this bad weather recently the mules maternal instinct from their Swaledale mothers showed through. They were the ewes who had their lambs tucked under a wall or hedge while they were off grazing rather than the lambs trailing around miserably after them. Last week highlighted it for me when I found a lamb obviously lost and located its Lleyn mother two fields away with her other lamb. She had wondered off and left one behind! I then found 2 lambs laid together under a holly bush with no mothers in sight. My cursing at the likelihood of wasting another half hour trying to find their mother was interrupted by the loud bleating of their mule mother as she came galloping through the gate from the other field because she'd seen me approach her lambs. There's lots of other subtle ways you can tell mothering instinct. If we let ewes out of a trailer and the lambs are in the front compartment the mules will fight to get back in the trailer whereas the Lleyns will be legging it down the hedge back. So you waste time having to bring them back. If you pick a mules lamb up it's mother will follow you through thick and thin, a Lleyn is more likely to run off.

The mules are also lasting much better, the Lleyns have a higher proportion of prolapses and mastitis.

I can only speak as I've found but in my experience a lot of the criticism on here of mules is ill founded. So for next year we will have a nucleus of mules to breed replacements by belted x texel tups but will also keep their 3/4 bred offspring for breeding as well.

This is the breeds we have here, a nucleus mule flock breeding texels x ewes back to a beltex/texels tip. We find it's the best breed for our farm and local markets.
Next year no different but will not be lambing hoggs next time, haven't lambed them for a few years and have just remembered why we stopped. We have had a few prolapse and a few not wanting there own lambs and quite frankly can't be arsed with the hassle at the end of lambing time. Its an area of our business iam not very good at, seem to look after them too well.

 

[Bob the beef]

Very interesting to read other viewpoints. I remember an old boy once telling me that your choice of sheep pretty much reflects your personality.

I am on second season of lambing homebred AFxCheviots and can't fault them at all. Yes there are slightly fewer lambs in them compared to the scotch mules but there is a much lowerr % lamb loss in them, good mothers and much cheaper to winter.
The scotch mules on the other hand scanned 198% , but can't see that through to turn out. Lost lots of triplets that were too small, 8 cases of twin lamb disease out of 130 ewes, 5 of which died, and took nearly twice as much feeding as the AF and cheviot mules.
My personality does not extend to generosity like that

 

[irish dom]

I would rate the first cross Suffolk or texel mule as a better ewe. Just as milky and maternal but tend to last better. Better lambs and a higher cull price for her. But then you have to produce the mule to breed her.
I think it all comes down to where you source your breeding stock. I know I bred some smashing mules from poor wee light broken mouth ewes from very very hard hills. I also bred some dung from dear flashy lanark ewes that didn't last pissing time. I guess I am just very lucky with my current lleyns supplier. He likes to run them hard so it's like Christmas every day when they come down the hill to me.
I do cross them with a belclare for replacements to put a wee bit more power into them. Not pushed on breeding them pure If I don't have to. Cheaper to buy them IMO

 

[firther]

When we started the flock 7 year ago we bought mules as they are the most numerous type of sheep around here. These are north of England mules bred out of Swaledale ewes. The first year we only had 53 ewes and sold 101 lambs. The main problem I saw with the mules was depreciation cost as they are dear to buy. So we started keeping texel gimmers out of them and found them to be almost as good maternally but producing a slightly higher value lamb. Then through reading things on here I thought if we changed to Lleyns we would have a ewe that was as good as the texel/mule, but be self replacing and thus minimal replacement cost. So we bought 50 shearlings from 3 different flocks including some of the most well known breeders and a commercial self replacing flock that lambs outside etc etc.

They do produce good lambs especially now we have switched to cross bred beltex/texel tups and I will keep them while they are productive but I won't buy anymore or breed them pure. They are just harder work than mules or the first cross from them. In this bad weather recently the mules maternal instinct from their Swaledale mothers showed through. They were the ewes who had their lambs tucked under a wall or hedge while they were off grazing rather than the lambs trailing around miserably after them. Last week highlighted it for me when I found a lamb obviously lost and located its Lleyn mother two fields away with her other lamb. She had wondered off and left one behind! I then found 2 lambs laid together under a holly bush with no mothers in sight. My cursing at the likelihood of wasting another half hour trying to find their mother was interrupted by the loud bleating of their mule mother as she came galloping through the gate from the other field because she'd seen me approach her lambs. There's lots of other subtle ways you can tell mothering instinct. If we let ewes out of a trailer and the lambs are in the front compartment the mules will fight to get back in the trailer whereas the Lleyns will be legging it down the hedge back. So you waste time having to bring them back. If you pick a mules lamb up it's mother will follow you through thick and thin, a Lleyn is more likely to run off.

The mules are also lasting much better, the Lleyns have a higher proportion of prolapses and mastitis.

I can only speak as I've found but in my experience a lot of the criticism on here of mules is ill founded. So for next year we will have a nucleus of mules to breed replacements by belted x texel tups but will also keep their 3/4 bred offspring for breeding as well.

totally agree, a few people tried to talk me out of keeping mules so I tried other breeds and crosses but ya can't beat a mule for putting to a terminal sire. easy lambing off a texel and there off spring are as well.
I think people struggle sometimes because they'll pay 80 quid for a mule and then moan that it were no good. Same as any other sheep really, you should know where its come from and get to know the breeders

 

[irish dom]

This is the breeds we have here, a nucleus mule flock breeding texels x ewes back to a beltex/texels tip. We find it's the best breed for our farm and local markets.
Next year no different but will not be lambing hoggs next time, haven't lambed them for a few years and have just remembered why we stopped. We have had a few prolapse and a few not wanting there own lambs and quite frankly can't be arsed with the hassle at the end of lambing time. Its an area of our business iam not very good at, seem to look after them too well.

Just pulled an absolute monster out of a mule Hogg that has had a diet of rushes and muddy water. Beltex cross charollais ram.Was nearly beat to get him out. It's hard to win. Don't think you could starve them enough for last month

 

[shearerlad]

What percentage of ewes that get one notch end up getting a second ? I bought cheap blank red tags . Pop one in and job done.

The first year I did this there would if been 35-40% of the ear notched ewes only lasted 12 months.

It’s difficult to be ruthless on culling without loosing a big part of your flock, this is a halfway house.

On the cull tag side, we all moan about tag retention. Can you guarantee the cull tag will stay in? I’d rather use notching as it’s a permanent mark

 

[sticky]

i'm cutting back, lambed one this year hope to have none next.

 

[Green farmer]

Just pulled an absolute monster out of a mule Hogg that has had a diet of rushes and muddy water. Beltex cross charollais ram.Was nearly beat to get him out. It's hard to win. Don't think you could starve them enough for last month

I’ve ewes with lambs in one field, hard to keep grass in front of them and in the field over the hedge unlambed texelx singles that I cannt starve enough to get huge live lambs out of.

 

[ford4000]

totally agree, a few people tried to talk me out of keeping mules so I tried other breeds and crosses but ya can't beat a mule for putting to a terminal sire. easy lambing off a texel and there off spring are as well.
I think people struggle sometimes because they'll pay 80 quid for a mule and then moan that it were no good. Same as any other sheep really, you should know where its come from and get to know the breeders

Mules really are cracking sheep on the whole. What's put me off them a bit is the diseases I've bought in with them, and the only "improvement" that's been made over the last 20 years is they now have black faces instead of brown years ago

 

[hendrebc]

I think a lot of the problem with the lleyn vs mule argument is that there is a LOT of variation in lleyns. Some are bloody awful, some are average and some are good or exellent. Its finding the food and exellent ones thats difficult when there is so much crap being bred.
Good points of the mule (im not a fan but can think of much worse sheep crap lleyns for one) is that you can pretty much guarantee the mother was exellent if shes a proper hill ewe so your halfway there. The other half of the mule breeding though

 

[MJT]

I think a lot of the problem with the lleyn vs mule argument is that there is a LOT of variation in lleyns. Some are bloody awful, some are average and some are good or exellent. Its finding the food and exellent ones thats difficult when there is so much crap being bred.
Good points of the mule (im not a fan but can think of much worse sheep crap lleyns for one) is that you can pretty much guarantee the mother was exellent if shes a proper hill ewe so your halfway there. The other half of the mule breeding though

The trouble is that now a lot of the mothers aren’t proper Hill ewes. I know a fair few mule breeders whose “Hill” ewes get fed and looked after better than most peoples lowland ewes . Like how many now turn ewes to the Hill with an valuable mule ewe lambs at foot I wonder ?

 

[Northeastfarmer]

Mules really are cracking sheep on the whole. What's put me off them a bit is the diseases I've bought in with them, and the only "improvement" that's been made over the last 20 years is they now have black faces instead of brown years ago

I’ve only got 20 mules and their lambs are by far the worst...absolutely hate them now

 

[hendrebc]

The trouble is that now a lot of the mothers aren’t proper Hill ewes. I know a fair few mule breeders whose “Hill” ewes get fed and looked after better than most peoples lowland ewes . Like how many now turn ewes to the Hill with an valuable mule ewe lambs at foot I wonder ?

Thats always going to be a problem and until buyers value hardiness over size and bonny heads it will never change.
Thats what happened to the lleyn. People keep them like they do mules. Keep the biggest showiest ram lambs eveey year and turn them into feed hungry donkey type things then someone buys a ram off them expecting his daughters to perform outside on grass just because its a lleyn. I know because i learnt the hard way. Big showy types are f**king awful

 

[exmoor dave]

The first year I did this there would if been 35-40% of the ear notched ewes only lasted 12 months.

It’s difficult to be ruthless on culling without loosing a big part of your flock, this is a halfway house.

On the cull tag side, we all moan about tag retention. Can you guarantee the cull tag will stay in? I’d rather use notching as it’s a permanent mark

I put 2x blank orange tags in as cull tags and a comment on the stock reader to flag up each time the animal is scanned. ...... comment often contains "choice language"

 

[exmoor dave]

I think a lot of the problem with the lleyn vs mule argument is that there is a LOT of variation in lleyns. Some are bloody awful, some are average and some are good or exellent. Its finding the food and exellent ones thats difficult when there is so much crap being bred.
Good points of the mule (im not a fan but can think of much worse sheep crap lleyns for one) is that you can pretty much guarantee the mother was exellent if shes a proper hill ewe so your halfway there. The other half of the mule breeding though

We dabbled in lleyns for a few years before going back to exmoor mules then on to exlana.

You're completely right about the variety in the lleyn breed.
I bought various bunches out of Exeter market (society sale), only one bunch was genuinely cracking, they preformed well and lasted a long time, after the first lambing I knew they were good, so following year went back to buy from same seller..... it was like night and day, poor squarnny things , so pasted over them.

Probably my biggest gripes with the lleyns was they were just abit too prolific and the ewe's weren't really up to the numbers of lambs- quads and even quins of tiny little lambs where a mule would have a solid triplet.

And longevity was very variable, some would go 5-7 lambing others would get to 3 and would have to be culled cause the teeth were already falling out! Prehaps they weren't made for scratching around for grass in a dry summer like we have here!
Where as mules here did a consistent 5 lambings.....always ended up regretting pushing for a 6th.

 

[hally]

The trouble is that now a lot of the mothers aren’t proper Hill ewes. I know a fair few mule breeders whose “Hill” ewes get fed and looked after better than most peoples lowland ewes . Like how many now turn ewes to the Hill with an valuable mule ewe lambs at foot I wonder ?

Yes a lot of the mule breeders around here are feeding well into June ( yes June) and have creep feeers in the field with their best ewe lambs, we have neighbours renting some of the best land in the county to rear these ewe lambs on. The days of the mule reared on the poorest hill land has gone I’m afraid.