Next years lambing

[Boydvalley]

Just pulled an absolute monster out of a mule Hogg that has had a diet of rushes and muddy water. Beltex cross charollais ram.Was nearly beat to get him out. It's hard to win. Don't think you could starve them enough for last month

That will be my change for next year. Lost 5 out of 30 singles all lambed by themselves so ewe lambs did their job but just took to long to have them. Have to lamb some hoggs otherwise they get to big on my system, so will be putting ram out a bit earlier than main flock and only for a month then hopefully miss the spring flush.

 

[Nithsdale]

This thread did well to get to page 5 before the Mule bashing started

It's safe to say Mules, in all their forms, are not the sheep they once were - when they were revolutionary to the sheep industry... if the breeders hadn't fecked the BFL, the Crossing type would never have been needed to be promoted

For what it's worth, I don't get to see many English BFL's... but I usually take a walk around the tent at Kelso each year and see the rams. Definitely, without doubt, the North of England traditional BFLs are superior to their Scottish counterparts. The difference is clear to see between pens.

I enjoyed breeding Scotch Mules. Part of me misses it, if I'm honest. I always felt they were a "jack of all trades, master of none" sheep - decent mother's, decent milkers and give decent lambs but nothing exciting. The 1 area which they were above average in, was their appetite

 

[ford4000]

I’ve only got 20 mules and their lambs are by far the worst...absolutely hate them now

Are they all from the same breeder? I'v bought crap ones many times, often from a small breeder who only had 10 or 20 in the sale

 

[ford4000]

Thats always going to be a problem and until buyers value hardiness over size and bonny heads it will never change.
Thats what happened to the lleyn. People keep them like they do mules. Keep the biggest showiest ram lambs eveey year and turn them into feed hungry donkey type things then someone buys a ram off them expecting his daughters to perform outside on grass just because its a lleyn. I know because i learnt the hard way. Big showy types are fudgeing awful

That's my concern about buying Lleyn tups for the first time. ... knowing who breeds good ones!

 

[Northeastfarmer]

Are they all from the same breeder? I'v bought crap ones many times, often from a small breeder who only had 10 or 20 in the sale

I’ve had them off various different breeders, always try to buy the best I can afford, not cheap screws......always disappoint me....they’re going this year....no more chances

 

[Green farmer]

Is there as much variation within the nz Romney’s as the Lleyns ? Only one Romney breeder in Ireland afaik. I think I’ve got decent Lleyns at present put will have to keep changing the rams every year or two. how does the Romney cross with the Lleyn ?

 

[Nithsdale]

That's my concern about buying Lleyn tups for the first time. ... knowing who breeds good ones!

Same with any breed...

Find the type you like. Talk to the breeder/seller...

Pay your money and take a punt.

Fortune favours the brave

 

[Nithsdale]

Is there as much variation within the nz Romney’s as the Lleyns ? Only one Romney breeder in Ireland afaik. I think I’ve got decent Lleyns at present put will have to keep changing the rams every year or two. how does the Romney cross with the Lleyn ?

IMO the Romney - UK or NZ type will add nothing to a good Lleyn (and vice versa)... except wool.

 

[Poorbuthappy]

IMO the Romney - UK or NZ type will add nothing to a good Lleyn (and vice versa)... except wool.

And thereby lies the conundrum.

 

[Nithsdale]

And thereby lies the conundrum.

No.

Because it's the exact same for every breed. There are NONE, where every tup (or ewe) forward for sale from all corners of the UK are the exact same.

It's up to you, as the shepherd/buyer to know what you are looking at and find what you want.

 

[Green farmer]

No.

Because it's the exact same for every breed. There are NONE, where every tup (or ewe) forward for sale from all corners of the UK are the exact same.

But is it ? I’ve no experience of the Romney’s , so that’s why I’m asking. I mentioned here last week the variation I’m getting in my lambs, some are very hairy as birth and others are as tight coated as a texel, all from the same Lleyn ram.

 

[Poorbuthappy]

No.

Because it's the exact same for every breed. There are NONE, where every tup (or ewe) forward for sale from all corners of the UK are the exact same.

It's up to you, as the shepherd/buyer to know what you are looking at and find what you want.

But it's not the exact same for every breed - the Lleyn is generally accepted as having more variation than most breeds. Plenty have tried them and found them wanting, often in ways you or I have found them to excell.
I agree it's up to the shepherd to find the right type for their situation - just think that's harder with the Lleyn than many others as there is so much variation, despite many breeders claiming to be producing "honest, working types".

 

[Green farmer]

Must add, I’m expanding the Lleyn blood in my flock as fast as possible, and a huge fan, but I’m open minded to anything else that can improve things and make life easier on me.

 

[Poorbuthappy]

Must add, I’m expanding the Lleyn blood in my flock as fast as possible, and a huge fan, but I’m open minded to anything else that can improve things and make life easier on me.

I like the NZ Romney in all ways bar the dags- just can't keep them clean. Not sure if it's too good a grass, or too wormy, bloodlines or what but it's put me off them.

 

[Nithsdale]

But is it ? I’ve no experience of the Romney’s , so that’s why I’m asking. I mentioned here last week the variation I’m getting in my lambs, some are very hairy as birth and others are as tight coated as a texel, all from the same Lleyn ram.

But it's not the exact same for every breed - the Lleyn is generally accepted as having more variation than most breeds. Plenty have tried them and found them wanting, often in ways you or I have found them to excell.
I agree it's up to the shepherd to find the right type for their situation - just think that's harder with the Lleyn than many others as there is so much variation, despite many breeders claiming to be producing "honest, working types".

If you did a poll on Cheviots, Charollais, Suffolks, Texels or any other breed asking if they were good or bad, you will find for every person who says X breed is good, someone says that breed is poor.

Surely the time you've been on here you've learned that

There is huge variation in the Lleyn breed, but that doesn't mean each type is drastically different... there are good and bad in each types. You could argue there something for everyone in that breed

I could go digging in my TexX thread and show several pictures of Suffolk tups which would show huge variation in that breed... but they don't get criticised for it.

 

[exmoor dave]

IMO the Romney - UK or NZ type will add nothing to a good Lleyn (and vice versa)... except wool.

Surely lleyn added in to Romney would increase lambing % but decrease wool quality

Vice versa Romney would bring lambing % back abit (if that's what someone wanted to achieve) & increase wool value abit

 

[Hilly]

I like the NZ Romney in all ways bar the dags- just can't keep them clean. Not sure if it's too good a grass, or too wormy, bloodlines or what but it's put me off them.

could be trace element problem, that makes all sheep shty bum bum.

 

[Hilly]

Surely lleyn added in to Romney would increase lambing % but decrease wool quality

Vice versa Romney would bring lambing % back abit (if that's what someone wanted to achieve) & increase wool value abit

Llyen would bloody ruin a good Romney.

 

[Nithsdale]

Surely lleyn added in to Romney would increase lambing % but decrease wool quality

Vice versa Romney would bring lambing % back abit (if that's what someone wanted to achieve) & increase wool value abit

How much p/kg is Romney wool worth? I thought it was overall yield (kg per ewe) which 'won' with them? My Lleyn wool is graded about the same as NCC usually and they crop a decent amount. IMO a good quality without going too much, resulting in more problems.

Prolifacy really depends if you want less (or more) lambs... you could well be disappointed with less lambs using a Romney.

 

[shearerlad]

Mules really are cracking sheep on the whole. What's put me off them a bit is the diseases I've bought in with them, and the only "improvement" that's been made over the last 20 years is they now have black faces instead of brown years ago

The trouble is that now a lot of the mothers aren’t proper Hill ewes. I know a fair few mule breeders whose “Hill” ewes get fed and looked after better than most peoples lowland ewes . Like how many now turn ewes to the Hill with an valuable mule ewe lambs at foot I wonder ?

That covers the reasons why I have gone from a scotch mule to a Cheviot mule. Not driven by fashion in the same way that the blackies and mule daughters have been and also far cleaner with the likes of OPA