NFU claiming credit for 25% SFI cap

[Huno]

we are dairy farmers primarily, and for several years now, have grown herbal leys, by choice, on a dry farm, they give more reliable yields than prg. They pay £141 ac, where's my lost income ?

we have some steep slopes, that don't produce much, in a normal year, put them into one of the mixes, and get £350 ac/year. We have hedges, can pull money on just 'assessing' them.

l accept on top quality land, its better to farm it, but who has 100% land like that, with no hedges, so there is usually some ground you can have a bung on

it's the potential yield drop, across the uk/europe, that could have the greatest effect on prices, and we need prices to rise, and that will only occur, when demand exceeds supply.

Milk and Beef production is not CROP production? Glad you have topped up your milk cheque income all the same

 

[BuskhillFarm]

For once I’m with NFU on this one, some short term free money for the big land owners planting flowers will lead to hard times long term, our future is in growing food not flowers!!

 

[Wombat]

For once I’m with NFU on this one, some short term free money for the big land owners planting flowers will lead to hard times long term, our future is in growing food not flowers!!

Try telling the AD maize guys that, the thing is I really don’t think people should say what people do with their land or put artificial limits on.

 

[BuskhillFarm]

Try telling the AD maize guys that, the thing is I really don’t think people should say what people do with their land or put artificial limits on.

We are surrounded by them and the Dairy (who export all their milk as powder) For proper food, cereals and the livestock it’s hard enough to be competitive on our part of the worlds small scale.

 

[Hindsight]

Yes thanks for posting that and i have read it.

Have also been told by an agent who sent me updated guidance the same date that it will be limited to 25% per parcel for most of the capped options ( as someone else posted on here )

Which is right who knows but hopefully your guidance is.

I am assuming for an application submitted today and while that version of the guidance is current a restriction to 25% of a land parcel does not apply. And that really is what your agent should say. Unless Defra start with retrospective adjustments to agreements.

 

[Clive]

I actually agree with the 25% cap, however to do it now is completely unjust. You say it will only be used on the unproductive soils but that has not happened. I know good farms which have put most of their land into it. If you are nearing retirement why would you not ? Why would you rent the land out to another farmer for less than you can get on SFI ?

i reckon uncapped sfi would have ended up circa 25-30% anyway

poor land farms would have done big %’s in and productive soils would have done very little. - surely it’s better the unproductive land ends up out of production than the good stuff ? and surely it’s the lower productive land that need the subsidies not the good stuff ?

defra had it right …….. they have been lobbied by supply trade a s supermarkets ( via nfu it seems !)

 

[Punch]

The only thing the 25% limit makes clear is that it will be impossible to get anywhere near BPS level of funding. In my situation it wasn't possible before this limit but now even worse. So probably will just collect the bits and bobs and continue as before but without the sub.

SFI was never was going replace BPS. It’s still based on an income forgone funding mechanism. If your get better than average yields, SFI should not be benefit. It’s just that very few are on better than average yields with this years weather. The flexibility to reduce or increase has led to larger amounts going in to SFI along with the 10% uplift this winter whilst combinable prices have dropped. Also it’s only 3 year agreement, so if weather and markets improve it shouldn’t be too hard to switch back!

 

[Punch]

Tom Bradshaw said "it sets out to achieve a greater balance between supporting food production alongside protecting and enhancing the environment"

Where is this support for food production? I haven't seen much evidence of it.

We haven’t had support for food production since 2004. The introduction of SFP in 2005 was a payment to keep land in good agricultural and environmental condition. Food production support needs either deficiency type payments or IACS type payments paid on a productive area. Deficiency payments reward the most economically productive farmers.

 

[Punch]

Except for herbal ley, whole field options now gone. I don't believe any of the running out of money on these threads. Spencer just announced unspent money over the last 2 years rolled forward into this year. They are underspending obv because they are now paying out far less than under BPS. So it has to be for political reasons, whatever that is - food security perception, public perception, who knows?
Herbal leys would not be very effective in year one, take time to get going (I'm told) so would be questionable whether it would fulfil it's objectives in one year only. There's no definition of 'fulfilling objective'.
There are still afew bits worth doing eg companion cropping and already doing the management plans. Hedges not worth the bother, only have perimeter hedges.

Underspending as been due to slow roll out of SFI. Had a pilot and 2022 scheme which they’ve now cancelled.
Torys did make a manifesto commitment to maintain Ag budget at same level until 2024. Therefore they politically had to roll those funds forward into this year or would be berated by Ag in an election year.
3 rounds of productivity grants this year to help clear the underspend. Delinked BPS payments this year further reduced So maybe bigger underspend!
It was NFU and TFA asking for the BPS reductions to be deferred until new ELM schemes were in place and working!

 

[Punch]

Spot on.
BPS bridged the gap. I’d even go as far as to say it made RT more palatable. At least somebody was paying us for it, (the taxpayer).
Stewardship provided environmental goods in a controlled and measured way.
Looking back it was exactly the right balance.
Now as producers we are entirely on our own saddled with high costs ahd regulations competing with lower standard imports.

Micheal Gove has a lot to answer for. “Public money for public goods” was the mantra but the definition didn’t include food as that’s not a public good!

 

[Punch]

Money, yes.

But I think much more about who stands to lose out if production falls….AHDB levy, NFU subscriptions, input sales (spray, fert etc), machinery dealers, grain merchants etc.

& RT!

 

[Grass And Grain]

You still haven't read the Defra March 26th updated guidance have you. I did post it for you to look at. You might find it helpful to read. Hey ho.

I'm being a bit lazy here... so the DEFRA guidance doesn't mention 25% of a land parcel?

It would take me a full day to explain those options to anyone who really wanted to understand but its Easter now!! Farmers really need to start listening to real farmers who have done these SFI options under CS for years.. Not advisors and influencers

Can we pick your brain/experience? Think iirc you've mentioned before about grassweeds in legume fallow. Do you think the grass weed problem comes in year 1, year 2, or both?

My experience was it was worse in last summer of 2 year legume fallow, but maybe I didn't notice it in the first summer, and the black grass was actually there. We did get brome seeding in year 1. Next time I'll take the brome out with herbicides in either the autumn establishment period or early in the first spring.

Maybe I didn't mow it enough times in first summer? Or mow it close enough to the ground, although difficult with a rear mounted flail. Maybe just use the grass mower several times so get a lower cut?

For once I’m with NFU on this one, some short term free money for the big land owners planting flowers will lead to hard times long term, our future is in growing food not flowers!!

Yea, the cap seems sensible (although for budgetary reasons rather than maintaining food production/security). I don't think NFU should use the food product/security reason as their reasoning. That's where their policy is wrong imho.

If farmers wish to max out on SFI field scale non-cropping options, then that reduces food production, which means price rises. We should be totally embracing that. Stewardship is less work, less ££ capital employed, less power and machinery needed, spreads workload, reduces risk, almost guaranteed payment and tightens food supply thus increases our prices.

If it increases our profit margins on the cropped areas, then it could end up being worth more to us than BPS. Fingers crossed

 

[T Hectares]

and areas of land covered in solar panels.

And the area under panels is still less than what’s in Golf courses !

 

[Henarar]

And the area under panels is still less than what’s in Golf courses !

could put a few on the golf course

 

[Courier]

If I were involved with this update from DEFRA I would be hanging my head in shame.

Easy option, more stick to beat farmers with and no actual incentive to produce food …..

 

[Nearly]

They have no shame.

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

My experience was it was worse in last summer of 2 year legume fallow, but maybe I didn't notice it in the first summer, and the black grass was actually there. We did get brome seeding in year 1. Next time I'll take the brome out with herbicides in either the autumn establishment period or early in the first spring.

I have cut this type of stuff for silage before and the annual grasses really don't like it at all.

It's a very big if, but if you get good growing conditions after your first cut, the clovers will smother out any annual grasses and stop them seeding.

Getting 3 cuts of high protein forage with no N applied off before going back into the arable rotation is sustainable alright.

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

And the area under panels is still less than what’s in Golf courses !

Ah yes I forgot about golf courses

And the aquaduct...

 

[Henarar]

 

[Hindsight]

i reckon uncapped sfi would have ended up circa 25-30% anyway

poor land farms would have done big %’s in and productive soils would have done very little. - surely it’s better the unproductive land ends up out of production than the good stuff ? and surely it’s the lower productive land that need the subsidies not the good stuff ?

defra had it right …….. they have been lobbied by supply trade a s supermarkets ( via nfu it seems !)

Struggling with this Clive. You seem to focus on the options taking labd out of production and are ignoring in crop / in field options. I have done a couple of heavy on the AHL1 & 2, IPM2 applications, and average per hectare payment nicely exceeds BPS. Got a dairy farm well above using the SAM3 trick. I work for farms on productive land looking at IPM4, SAM2 on a chunk of land. Now if those productive land boys drop in athe few beans in winter wheat for SAM2 on all their winter corn and a fair bit of IPM3 then am back upto BPS average across the farm. And thats before we get to the new goodies like Variable Rate Fert, ditch management this Summer. Unlike you I struggle to see why they will not be overspent once farmers and agents really get going.