No-tillers should be paid for their services to society

[benferg]

Over here lease agreements state that the soil must be in as good a condition or better at the end of the lease.

Ok that's a hard statement to quantify but you get the idea. they measure soil nutrient levels, it will state that a minimum of lime that must be applied. will also dictate to some extent if certain crops can be grown & what % of the area. If you had a good agent it could require cover crops are grown where possible.

I guess you need realistic expectations from both parties to get this though. Sadly not always the case.

 

[Feldspar]

Interestingly at the ProCam cover crop today mention was made of a no-till contracting outfit whose agreement with their clients states that if any of their clients ever leave they must pay the contracting company a fee which reflects the value that the contractor has added to their soil (in the form of higher SOM levels and so on). Apparently no one has left yet.

 

[Clive]

Interestingly at the ProCam cover crop today mention was made of a no-till contracting outfit whose agreement with their clients states that if any of their clients ever leave they must pay the contracting company a fee which reflects the value that the contractor has added to their soil (in the form of higher SOM levels and so on). Apparently no one has left yet.

Couldn't say much in my previous post but I have just taken on some extra ground and used the SOM improvement / sustainable thing as a selling point. I now know it got me the land despite not being the idiot offering the most £

Seems some landlords / agents are starting to wake up to this

 

[Feldspar]

Couldn't say much in my previous post but I have just taken on some extra ground and used the SOM improvement / sustainable thing as a selling point. I now know it got me the land despite not being the idiot offering the most £

Seems some landlords / agents are starting to wake up to this

Good news indeed. Presume you're not getting paid though for improvements to the land - that would be progress!

 

[shakerator]

yes wish i had asked more details..........

whats 0.2% OM worth per Ha?

 

[Feldspar]

yes wish i had asked more details..........

whats 0.2% OM worth per Ha?

Can you measure OM to an accuracy of less than 0.2%? I would have thought that the variation within fields is such that your error in any sample reading is probably going to be comparable to 0.2%. Would be interesting to know how that contract was worded.

 

[shakerator]

Can you measure OM to an accuracy of less than 0.2%? I would have thought that the variation within fields is such that your error in any sample reading is probably going to be comparable to 0.2%. Would be interesting to know how that contract was worded.

very true!

tony reynolds up @ 6% i believe, and i think he bales?

the trouble in this country is that any 'consultants' definition of sustainability hinges on the gross calorific value of farm outputs, without a full audit of the energy inputs

 

[Dan Powell]

At what depth would you measure any improvement? A plough based system would have homogeneous soil down to plough depth, whereas in no till the OM would be highest at the surface and reduce with depth.

 

[SilliamWhale]

Don't agree with extra subsidies really, think they should be capped as it is as there are far too much being doled out.

Possibly a bit more concerted research may help but that has limitations. To be honest much of the best info is either here or on the web or with someone in the world so we don't need to reinvent the wheel.

Om and Humus etc. very hard to detect. Live and let live, there will always be many ways to skin a cat.

Lost a battle over one field with my old man this year and he has ploughed it and cultivated it 5 times this summer as a fallow! Couldn't be bothered to argue anymore..

 

[benferg]

That's a lot of passes with a tractor to get a fallow!!!!

In the last year we disced over 6oo ha to incorperate straw etc, only ploughed 8 ha.

 

[SilliamWhale]

Something for him to do. My tractor has done a ridiculously low amount of hours since we've been direct drilling I think he misses it.

 

[dontknowanything]

I visited a farm in the fens recently and it was eye opening. An organic farm can get away with ploughing and releasing soil nutrients because of the high SOM levels and it will be many, many years before the natural fertility runs out. Under a SOM-payment system he would qualify for a long time for the highest payments!

I thought that the peat layer was getting shallower and shallower each year, and in some cases has gone entirely?

 

[The Ruminant]

I thought that the peat layer was getting shallower and shallower each year, and in some cases has gone entirely?

I'm no expert on the fens, but I think a lot of the shrinkage is due to draining the peat soils (though happy to be corrected). The farms I saw the other day still had really deep organic peat soils and so, even though prone to wind erosion, would in all likelihood, last for dozens and dozens of years even under a monoculture, plough-based system.

 

[dontknowanything]

I'm no expert on the fens, but I think a lot of the shrinkage is due to draining the peat soils (though happy to be corrected). The farms I saw the other day still had really deep organic peat soils and so, even though prone to wind erosion, would in all likelihood, last for dozens and dozens of years even under a monoculture, plough-based system.

OK, I won't argue with that, I'm sure you're correct.

 

[JCMaloney]

Sorry to butt in but I done a little work on East Midlands geology & land drainage.....exciting I know! Keeps me out of mischief!
Little pdf article about the Holme Post might assist with understanding of "shrinkage" speed & effect in the peat areas.

 

[dontknowanything]

Sorry to butt in but I done a little work on East Midlands geology & land drainage.....exciting I know! Keeps me out of mischief!
Little pdf article about the Holme Post might assist with understanding of "shrinkage" speed & effect in the peat areas.

Amazing.

Since the peat oxidises away, I wonder how much faster it would go under a plough system as opposed to true no till

 

[JCMaloney]

Can`t give you a no till answer but there has been a fair bit of research in NZ about managing peat soils, the very broadest of summary is that the less cultivation, increased drainage etc you do the longer the peat will "last". However I`ll temper that by saying their research suggests putting it under pasture!!
NZ Peat Management.

I only got into geology & land drainage whilst helping a PhD student doing research on Roman coin findspots that has remapped the area surrounding the Wash that was "dry land" in the 3rd/4th Cent!!
The Uk was a much moister,boggier place all over 1800++ years ago!!

 

[benferg]

Pasture rocks man!!