Non stun/stun

[itsalwaysme]

A 10 page thread on stun/no stun, I don't know much (anything really) about animal slaughter, but I fully support animal welfare. I believe that stun should be used, but I presume whatever option is used death is fairly quick. To me it just highlights what a mad world we live in, when our own kind, yes that's us humans can suffer for years with progressive debilitating sometimes very painful illnesses but that's ok then

 

[Werzle]

We have abit to go to catch the 'Acorn finance' thread pages , itsalwaysme. Anything up to 12 minutes for cattle to die with non stun . All us farmers want as much money as possible for our stock but there are times when we should have morals deeper than our pockets.

 

[Smith31]

Quick death? Gasping through a slit wind pipe while choking on there own blood! And thats only sheep, you go and witness a cow being done, it will give you nightmares. There are cases of cruelty on some farms thats why we have vets and then trading standards and the rspca who seem to be asleep on the job nowadays.

I was in a abattoir last week saw the 283 lambs which I sent get slaughtered. I didn't see anything any more cruel there, then when pigs are gassed by the thousand as they gasp for air and see their friends scream and collapse.

Or when sheep are stunned and the thongs damage the eyes, the full body weight hits the concrete, before they are shackled upside down and sent up a conveyor, followed by their throats being slit.

There is no painless death.

 

[Werzle]

Even the supermarkets are at odds over gassing/stunning of pigs, tesco pork is 100% gassed i think which takes 30seconds to work, Morrisons prefer stunned pork. I would take 30 second of gas over 12 minutes bleeding out, if i had the choice. If your sheep are stunned they dont feel the concrete or shackles. Its a shame most of the small slaughterhouses closed down because there would less industrial type noise around the small outfits to scare animals .

 

[nelly55]

In this day and age technology and veterinary advice should have moved on enough to ensure a quick and painless death in any form or way.So the question is what is a painless ,stress free death for an animal.
Destination should be within a certain distance,
Time limit on journey
Vet at unloading bay at all times or a qualified person.
Vet present at slaughter point.
Sadly too few slaughter houses ,not enough inspections,larger and larger transport vehicles.
My question was animal welfare on non stun ,not to start on farm welfare,other countries attitudes or any other topic to other than the original question.
Finally going back to balls ,what can be done or is it just chat,moan and get on with it.This subject will continue to raise its head because there are questions to be answered .

 

[unlacedgecko]

https://www.vettimes.co.uk/news/non-stun-slaughter-more-than-doubles/

Non stun is a growing market. UK secular and Christian sheep meat consumption is down. Draw your own conclusions.

 

[manhill]

I think they did but the uk used a exemption. All the stupid EU rules that infuriate us and the uk chooses to ignore this one, purely on political grounds to avoid an uprising. Crazy

The EU

How come the EU has not made a rule on this ?

Is this the same EU that allows some of its states carry out animal tormenting rituals? I'm alluding to sticking spears in an animal to weaken it prior to a final stabbing to death. Ffs any slaughterhouse method is probably better than that but the Brussels gang haven't got the balls to stop it.

 

[Northeastfarmer]

Even the supermarkets are at odds over gassing/stunning of pigs, tesco pork is 100% gassed i think which takes 30seconds to work, Morrisons prefer stunned pork. I would take 30 second of gas over 12 minutes bleeding out, if i had the choice. If your sheep are stunned they dont feel the concrete or shackles. Its a shame most of the small slaughterhouses closed down because there would less industrial type noise around the small outfits to scare animals .

Morrison’s have just installed a gas chamber for pigs

 

[unlacedgecko]

The EU

Is this the same EU that allows some of its states carry out animal tormenting rituals? I'm alluding to sticking spears in an animal to weaken it prior to a final stabbing to death. Ffs any slaughterhouse method is probably better than that but the Brussels gang haven't got the balls to stop it.

In my mind there is nothing wrong with either. But given the choice, I'd rather be a Spanish fighting bull than a British barley bull.

 

[tepapa]

This thread shows how far mankind has come from the days of hunting animals to survive to be far removed from the production systems.

 

[Northeastfarmer]

In my mind there is nothing wrong with either. But given the choice, I'd rather be a Spanish fighting bull than a British barley bull.

Yep, I’m sure you’d rather be put into a arena, tormented with a flag, have 2 dozen javelins stabbed into your muscles whilst getting yourself exhausted from more torment then finally when the matador is bored you’re stabbed through the heart to kill you.....breeding animals purely to be killed for sport is absolutely diabolically disgusting

 

[unlacedgecko]

Yep, I’m sure you’d rather be put into a arena, tormented with a flag, have 2 dozen javelins stabbed into your muscles whilst getting yourself exhausted from more torment then finally when the matador is bored you’re stabbed through the heart to kill you.....breeding animals purely to be killed for sport is absolutely diabolically disgusting

I was more thinking the 5 years of open range living, as opposed to being the bovine equivalent of a broiler chicken.

All animal sports involve animals dying, whether as a direct result of participation (intended or accidental) or sub standard animals being called.

 

[Northeastfarmer]

I was more thinking the 5 years of open range living, as opposed to being the bovine equivalent of a broiler chicken.

All animal sports involve animals dying, whether as a direct result of participation (intended or accidental) or sub standard animals being called.

Every single one of my finishing cattle get two full summers at grass

 

[manhill]

Great to see Mr Macho matador flying through the air, full marks to the bull.

 

[Hummin-Cummins]

In my mind there is nothing wrong with either. But given the choice, I'd rather be a Spanish fighting bull than a British barley bull.

You’re mad, i often say I wouldn’t mind coming back in the next life as a barley bull, nice roof over your head all year so dry in winter and cool in summer, food on tap and can sleep all day sounds bliss if u ask me

 

[Castle Farm]

The world will be a better place after all humans have exterminated themselves.

 

[Agrivator]

I was more thinking the 5 years of open range living, as opposed to being the bovine equivalent of a broiler chicken.

All animal sports involve animals dying, whether as a direct result of participation (intended or accidental) or sub standard animals being called.

Terrier racing at our local show doesn't involve dying.
Unless it loses.

 

[manhill]

You’re mad, i often say I wouldn’t mind coming back in the next life as a barley bull, nice roof over your head all year so dry in winter and cool in summer, food on tap and can sleep all day sounds bliss if u ask me

Beats coming back as a steer.

 

[dychwelydd]

Muslim chap buys some lamb off us, he said majority of muslims couldn't give two hoots about halal these days

You know that's objectively untrue, since halaal meat is the fastest growing sector of the meat industry in Britain, on the continent, in Canada, Australia etc. If they 'didn't give two hoots' then shops from Inverness to Ipswich, from Cardiff to Cracow wouldn't be selling it, as there wouldn't be a demand.


On the topic at hand, most halaal butchery in Britain is done in a way almost identical to how haraam meat is slaughtered, the lamb or cow or goat or chicken is stunned in a way that renders it invalid but alive, and then it's throat is cut. The difference is that the butcher says Bismillah before making the cut. Kosher meat on the other hand cannot be stunned. Personally, I am a supporter of traditional no-stun slaughter, there is no way to make death a nice thing for the animal, its dying either way and that's unpleasant, a skilled butcher could kill an animal almost instantly with a knife cut, that hurts no more than a captive bolt or being electrocuted or whacked over the head. 'Stunning' is nothing more than a performative act for people who feel some sort of guilt about killing and eating an animal to feel less bad about it, that's the problem that needs to be dealt with, there's no reason to feel bad about slaughtering an animal, the trade is fair in my opinion, the livestock get comfortable and well fed lives on a farm and in return we get their meat, it's their purpose in life to be our food.


Also, to everyone else halaal slaughter and kosher slaughter is never getting banned in this country, it would be tantamount to telling the rapidly growing Muslim population that they're not allowed to eat meat, no politician or party can afford to insult the fastest growing (15% in 2025, 25% in 2040) demographic in the country in such a grievous way, not to mention that it would mean banning kosher slaughter as well, and Jewish groups are well monied and supported and will never stand for it.

There is one law in this country, its that halaal slaughter is a legal option to butcher neat.


Now excuse me whilst I eat the leftovers of the capon that I slaughtered myself, in halaal fashion, in my back garden, absolutely scrumptious!

 

[Werzle]

Nonsense, havent you heard under mr gove's new assurance scheme its going to be banned, doesnt want to loose the vote of millions who are against ritual cruelty or farmers who hold the keys to the nations food cupboard. After brexit we are going to all abide by the same set of rules, its called the 'like it or lump it' policy.