NUM3 - Legume Fallow, now rotational

[Hornet]

I agree completely; but a poorly established AHL2 will amount to SAM2 to an inspector when he comes to have a look

if a poorly established AHL2 is providing seeds for birds, then I cant see what they could do?
We wont lose payment as long as we show what weve done, and justified why.
Worst case the payment reverts down to perhaps SAM2? But that doesnt mean you still couldnt do NUM3 or AHL1 in the following spring with a 1st march start date

 

[farmerm]

The more discussion and thought I've had about my original idea (post 94 in this thread) the more I wonder about replacing NUM3 with AHL1?

So why not:
Wheat 2022/3
Barley 2023/4
AHL2 sown summer 2024 (including legumes and some self sowing species that would survive into the spring) then another sown option of...
AHL1 sown spring 2025: Sow species to complement / patch up autumn sown surviving legume species, as well as the 2 out of 5 species required in the handbook, plus eg phacelia, berseem clover etc to ensure flowering actions are achieved

Then back to:
Wheat 2025/26

If SFI start date was at the end of Feb so AHL2 and AHL1 werent in same "SFI Year" I think the aims of both actions can be achieved, possibly easier than sowing NUM3

Income for 14-15 months out of production: £1346/ha

Costs of two sowings of seed: perhaps £120-200/ha depending on how adventurous you feel?

Clear gross margin of over £1000/ha and a decent winter wheat crop afterwards. Winner winner chicken dinner.

Tell me what break crop could do that, and how many inputs damaging the environment would be needed to do so vs SFI!!

Do you achieve the encourage summer flowering "purpose" with summer sown AHL1 or is purpose none binding...

 

[Hornet]

Do you achieve the encourage summer flowering "purpose" with summer sown AHL1 or is purpose none binding...

Perhaps with some careful thought re which of the 5 species specified in the handbook it is achievable. But its what you can put with it that makes it very achievable. All sorts that have short seed to flower periods that would work: phacelia, mustard, berseem and crimson clover etc

 

[Hornet]

However, there does seem to be a conflict with AHL1 thats probably not solveable:

The 5 species listed in the handbook are biennial plants, so wont flower in the 1st year of sowing them.
The rules say that AHL1 can be done annually as long as the aims of the actions are met.
This is arguably impossible, IF the species specified to be sown need to be flowering in the annual option

Regardless of what else CAN flower in the mix, will we get in trouble if there isnt evidence of the specified species not flowering (if the annual sowing option is chosen)?

 

[BBE]

I'm trying to put a value on the forage NUM3 could produce. I'm thinking of autumn establishment, cut & bale in June and again August (to control grass weeds). As a budget figure I was thinking 6 t/ha and maybe £25p/t so £150p/ha output. I've very little knowledge of this crop so would like to know if this sound realistic.

 

[Allsorts]

I'm trying to put a value on the forage NUM3 could produce. I'm thinking of autumn establishment, cut & bale in June and again August (to control grass weeds). As a budget figure I was thinking 6 t/ha and maybe £25p/t so £150p/ha output. I've very little knowledge of this crop so would like to know if this sound realistic.

I am thinking of doing the same, was told yesterday that you can include ryegrass in the mix aswell.

 

[Luke Cropwalker]

I am thinking of doing the same, was told yesterday that you can include ryegrass in the mix aswell.

Do your future self a favour and, under no circumstances introduce ryegrass onto your farm if you do not already have it as a grassweed.

 

[e3120]

Do your future self a favour and, under no circumstances introduce ryegrass onto your farm if you do not already have it as a grassweed.

He's a mixed farmer - we consider ryegrass to be a crop, more than a weed.

 

[e3120]

If I was establishing num3 (with ryegrass/westerwolds) in the autumn, I'd be including selected small seeds (and some spring barley) with the aim of producing some winter bird food & £853/Ha.

Plaster with muck in September, plough the lot down, winter barley or wholecrop wheat and repeat.

 

[Clive]

if a poorly established AHL2 is providing seeds for birds, then I cant see what they could do?
We wont lose payment as long as we show what weve done, and justified why.
Worst case the payment reverts down to perhaps SAM2? But that doesnt mean you still couldnt do NUM3 or AHL1 in the following spring with a 1st march start date

worst case is a droughty July, August, September, October but you can't control the weather and as long as you made every effort to achieve he aim I doubt they would penalise, 4 month is more than enough time to reasonably expect to achieve the aim , a wet July might also delay Barley harvest but that wouild also mean plenty of moisture to get the option established so I dont think thats a risk just like under BPS I'm sure extreme circumstances re weather etc will lead to dispensations

if that's not the case you could suggest you should do no SFI actions whatsoever as its possible for any of them to fail due to circumstance beyond your control (weather) in any year

 

[farmerm]

Perhaps with some careful thought re which of the 5 species specified in the handbook it is achievable. But its what you can put with it that makes it very achievable. All sorts that have short seed to flower periods that would work: phacelia, mustard, berseem and crimson clover etc

Had it official, AHL2 summer flowering purpose is wishful, it is not part of the AIM and is not a requirement.

 

[serf]

Had it official, summer flowering purpose is wishful, it is not part of the AIM and is not a requirement.

I've lost track

so what sown when and what's the reward ?

 

[Jim t]

Anyone got any suggestions on how I can have half the farm in wheat and other half in a SFI option that gives the best return ?

 

[farmerm]

I've lost track

so what sown when and what's the reward ?

Sorry, that was for AHL2 bird seed... sow when you like providing you meet the aims of having small seed supply over the winter.

 

[Badshot]

I'm trying to put a value on the forage NUM3 could produce. I'm thinking of autumn establishment, cut & bale in June and again August (to control grass weeds). As a budget figure I was thinking 6 t/ha and maybe £25p/t so £150p/ha output. I've very little knowledge of this crop so would like to know if this sound realistic.

I'd ask the helpline first if cutting and baling is allowed across the entire area, it doesn't specifically say you can't, but only if you meet the aim of flowers in late spring and the whole summer.

 

[BBE]

I'd ask the helpline first if cutting and baling is allowed across the entire area, it doesn't specifically say you can't, but only if you meet the aim of flowers in late spring and the whole summer.

Advice is a bit contradictory, the handbook says this:

You must not do the following on the area of legume fallow once it’s established:
• graze it with livestock – if you want to graze with livestock you may want to consider action SAM3 (herbal leys) instead
• cut it, except to prevent blackgrass from setting seed or to control other annual grass weeds
• apply any fertilisers or manures
• use pesticides, except for herbicides to weed wipe or spot treat for the control of injurious weeds, invasive non-native species, nettles or bracken

​

But then the guidance notes seem to encourage cutting (& removing cut vegetation):

Maintaining established areas​

Once the area is established, you need to maintain it by managing it in a way that could reasonably be expected to achieve this action’s aim (described above).

NUM3 allows you to cut the area to prevent blackgrass from setting seed or to control other annual grass weeds.

During the first spring and summer after sowing, you can:

• start cutting as soon as blackgrass starts to produce seed heads
• do follow up cuts as necessary to remove further seed heads

During the second year after sowing, you can control blackgrass by cutting between March and mid- June-May and then leave the area uncut for a period of at least around 5 weeks until early August.  This will help to:

• allow plants to flower for as long as possible
• provide pollen and nectar for insects such as bees, butterflies, hoverflies and moths

Check the area for signs of nesting birds before you cut it – birds, nests and eggs are protected by law, so if you see signs of nesting birds, delay cutting until the birds fledge.

Remove the cut vegetation, where possible, to help reduce the risk of it smothering the flower species and limit weeds – if it’s impractical to do this, you can finely chop them to spread them as thinly as possible.


Difficult to know what they want really!

 

[BBE]

Perhaps just a single cut in August would be a safer option, although you would have lost much of the nutritional value.

 

[serf]

ifficult to know what they want really!

And you think they know ,

looks like theres going to be so much wriggle room with these " rules" they will be unenforceable in the end and ppl will get around everything through technicalities and small print ...

 

[serf]

Perhaps just a single cut in August would be a safer option, although you would have lost much of the nutritional value.

Be ideal for suckler cows

 

[Mixedupfarmer]

Perhaps just a single cut in August would be a safer option, although you would have lost much of the nutritional value.

Can't see why you couldn't take early cuts (April and May), if there is definitely blackgrass, and later on if there are definitely wild oats, as long as there was a period (late May, through June) to allow flowering of the legumes? Photos of the grassweeds in the field would be the evidence?