One rule for the grain merchant and another for the farmer ....

[Seed&Grain]

Why does anyone deal with these small time merchants ? Disaster waiting to happen

Wouldn't ever contemplate any serious credit for anyone smaller than the big 3 UK merchants

what do you classify as a small time merchant and why only 3 major merchants?

 

[Seed&Grain]

So the merchant wasn't letting the farmer make a knock for moisture, bushels weight etc was he?

Next time said merchant wants to buy some grain, farmer wants to ask for payment before collection.

It really bugs me that grain contracts are so one sided. What are the NFU, AHDB Cereals and red tractor messing about at. They should be negotiating harder for us.

I have no problem at all with knocks for moisture or bushel weight BUT I want to see a bonus for dry corn and high bushel weights. What's fair one way must be fair the other way.

Merchants with their own end user often pay bonuses on crop that falls well with in spec!

 

[Clive]

what do you classify as a small time merchant and why only 3 major merchants?

if you are going to owe me significant money I need to know you are good fpor it, as in an earlier post farming history is littered with examples of smaller merchants going bust owing farms big money, I NEVER want that to be me, its the single biggest risk to my farming business IMO

when we are moving grain out of store fast we could be easy more that £100k exposed between collection and payment, that risk needs limiting, for me thats Frontier,m ASM and Gleadall - all BIG international blue chip companies that i'm pretty sure are good for the money

I would (and do) occasionally do small deals on some of our more niche crops with smaller guys but the amount at stake is much lower than it would be when we are moving mainstream crops like wheat and OSR etc

 

[Seed&Grain]

if you are going to owe me significant money I need to know you are good fpor it, as in an earlier post farming history is littered with examples of smaller merchants going buits owing farms big money

when we are moving grain out of store fast we could be easy more that £100k exposed between collection and payment, that risk needs limiting, for me thats Frontier,m ASM and Gleadall - all BIG blue chip companies that i'm pretty sure are good for the money

I would (and do) occasionally do small deals on some of our more niche crops with smaller guys but the amount at stake is much lower than it would be when we are moving mainstream crops like wheat and OSR etc

Those three companies are not the only Blue Chip in the business!

 

[Clive]

Those three companies are not the only Blue Chip in the business!

they are the ones I trust and I have no need or desire to look beyond them when it comes to grain sales

Frontier (cargill) and ADM are the world's biggest I believe ?

 

[bankrupt]

I'd like to meet the tool who "guest" your oil at 39%.....sounds very odd.

He assured us, Grain Buyer, that this was the average for the season.

Absolutely no need to test it.

Funnily enough, I subsequently met many fellow farmers who had meekly accepted this position.

But give 'em their due, our original counterparty, Dalgety, were having none of it and swiftly sent on their cheque to settle for about £400/load.

Whether or not they ever got their cash back from their rogue store, we never heard.

 

[bankrupt]

I'd like to meet the tool who "guest" your oil at 39%.....sounds very odd.

In fact, this very same guy had a distribution arrangement with BASF at the time when we had 200t of CAN set on us, it having earlier been left standing on the dock at Sharpness over an extremely wet weekend.

Then, him having agreed with BASF to be paid £20/t to lift it, replace it and recondition it, he turned up in my yard in his 735i and offered me £10/t to forget all about it.

A couple of years after this, Dalgety entrusted him with our OSR.

 

[D14]

A couple of instances over the years we have had calls saying a load of crop had been rejected even though it had not even been picked up yet due to haulage issues. It was almost as if admin in the office had been told to call us at a set time rejecting the load.

 

[fieldfarmer]

not wanting to labour the point, but the merchant in this instance gained nothing by rejecting it in the first place, and by accepting a further load demonstrates they were happy to take the contract.

In this instance nothing was gained by the merchant , but how many others that day would have just accepted the knock with out challenge? Don't think he said they accepted another load though.

 

[Farma Parma]

In this instance nothing was gained by the merchant , but how many others that day would have just accepted the knock with out challenge? Don't think he said they accepted another load though.

They lost our trade fully because of it. Their loss.
i personally wont be knocking on there door neither.
Moved to a far better organization anyways

 

[TelesnaAg]

I personally consider payment abilty first..before worrying about price..even for my tiny tonnage as 1 bad deal would end me...plain and simple....

I mostly direct market now...except for beans...which had no drama with AGT...i enjoy taking cash for barley in bulka bags...meet good folk and get paid there and then...

Also sold to glencore grain...since i work for glencore mining....

As far as big players go...reckon there might be some change coming in this area...mergers...

Ant..

 

[bankrupt]

They lost our trade

One of the advantages us farmers have, Farma Parma, is the benefit of being able to make a fresh start due to the amalgamation of our suppliers.

For example, I was in dispute with Trumps when they became Fulfords under new management.

Fulfords then twice supplied us with wild oats in our seed barley but, before that could be resolved, they sold out to Silcocks who then became Spillers, who then failed to deliver our Nitram order as agreed but before that could be resolved they became Dalgety who consigned our OSR into a dodgy local store (see above) and then soon became Masstock, who sent us sprouted seed wheat, and who then became Agrii with whom our account happily remains today.

 

[An Gof]

One of the advantages us farmers have, Farma Parma, is the benefit of being able to make a fresh start due to the amalgamation of our suppliers.

For example, I was in dispute with Trumps when they became Fulfords under new management.

Fulfords then twice supplied us with wild oats in our seed barley but, before that could be resolved, they sold out to Silcocks who then became Spillers, who then failed to deliver our Nitram order as agreed but before that could be resolved they became Dalgety who consigned our OSR into a dodgy local store (see above) and then soon became Masstock, who sent us sprouted seed wheat, and who then became Agrii with whom our account happily remains today.

Takes a lot to upset you

 

[bankrupt]

Takes a lot to upset you

Win some, lose some.

 

[An Gof]

One of the advantages us farmers have, Farma Parma, is the benefit of being able to make a fresh start due to the amalgamation of our suppliers.

For example, I was in dispute with Trumps when they became Fulfords under new management.

Fulfords then twice supplied us with wild oats in our seed barley but, before that could be resolved, they sold out to Silcocks who then became Spillers, who then failed to deliver our Nitram order as agreed but before that could be resolved they became Dalgety who consigned our OSR into a dodgy local store (see above) and then soon became Masstock, who sent us sprouted seed wheat, and who then became Agrii with whom our account happily remains today.

You've been in the industry a long time if you have dealt personally with all those incarnations. Remember father dealing with Fulfords when they still had a depot at Trerulefoot but I was only a small boy then back in the days when we had our first Ford 4000 that replaced the Major.
Wasn't there a period before Dalgety when it was RHM?

 

[An Gof]

Trying to remember the supply industry history. @bankrupt i thought Sillcocks were absorbed by BOCM and that Spillers went with Dalgety. Did Sillcocks take Spillers first and then seperrate it again ?

 

[bankrupt]

Wasn't there a period before Dalgety when it was RHM?

You're right - they sent us sprouted wheat seed, too.

As to tractors, our Major replaced an E27N which replaced the N on which I started.

 

[bankrupt]

Trying to remember the supply industry history. @bankrupt i thought Sillcocks were absorbed by BOCM and that Spillers went with Dalgety. Did Sillcocks take Spillers first and then seperrate it again ?

It was a bit difficult to keep up in the 70s.

Pauls (later BOCM) opened up in Crediton and the mill at Lifton changed hands several times.

I'll look it up tonite.

 

[BigBarl]

Popped into a local farm today to use his weighbridge for some wheat I was delivering. Well being a wet morning he was around the yard and we had a yarn.
He was a bit miffed about a local grain merchant that he deals with. Now my friend sells said merchant quite a bit of his grain and receives payment on normal monthly terms. Nothing strange so far.
However my friend sells quite a bit of rolled barley to local farmers and, having exhausted his supply, had to buy some in. So he calls the merchant he sells to and enquiries about buying some delivered in. Did a deal for 4 artic loads but the merchant INSISTED he paid in full BEFORE delivery
My friend was rather taken aback and questioned this approach but said merchant was determined and my friend needing the barley had no option to pay up front.
Now in view of the Wellgrain debacle does this suggest merchants are a) strapped for cash or b) shi***ng themselves about bad debt.
Likewise as producers perhaps we should INSIST on cleared payment BEFORE collection. Surely What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander

If a merchant has bought grain off farm for years they have always been the buyer, therefore how do they know that farm is a good payer? the merchant could be giving them all the money for the grain for them to rack up loads of debt elsewhere with machinery dealers, feed suppliers etc etc. I think it's fair on a first deal that the merchant has some reassurance they will get paid. if the farmer in this instance didn't want to pay up front then perhaps they could contra the grain against a sale of the equivalent tonnage and value for new crop?

'Likewise as producers perhaps we should INSIST on cleared payment BEFORE collection. Surely What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander [/QUOTE]'

this would work if the grain bought is guaranteed in spec before it arrives at the mill. if the merchant has already paid the contract value then in a lot of cases getting the claimed amount back could prove tricky! most good merchants will give cash against a contract up to 80-90% of the contract value with a slight interest charge which is fair enough to me.

 

[An Gof]

If a merchant has bought grain off farm for years they have always been the buyer, therefore how do they know that farm is a good payer? the merchant could be giving them all the money for the grain for them to rack up loads of debt elsewhere with machinery dealers, feed suppliers etc etc. I think it's fair on a first deal that the merchant has some reassurance they will get paid. if the farmer in this instance didn't want to pay up front then perhaps they could contra the grain against a sale of the equivalent tonnage and value for new crop?

'Likewise as producers perhaps we should INSIST on cleared payment BEFORE collection. Surely What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander

'

this would work if the grain bought is guaranteed in spec before it arrives at the mill. if the merchant has already paid the contract value then in a lot of cases getting the claimed amount back could prove tricky! most good merchants will give cash against a contract up to 80-90% of the contract value with a slight interest charge which is fair enough to me.[/QUOTE]

No guarantee that the grain a merchant delivers to you will be in spec