'Organic' dairy farmer dropped after selling non-organic milk

[Henarar]

I would suggest to any member of the public or any member of TFF who wishes to see the high standards required for a well run, fully certified organic farm in reality, then they should have a look around for an organic farm to visit on open farm Sunday.

you could say that about a non organic farm

I have been on organic farms that kept the animals in conditions I would not keep them in, likewise non organic farms

 

[S J H]

talking to the vet the other day, he thinks that eventually we will all have on line medicines records, which will tie in with on line records from the vet so there will be an audit trail to show which animals the antibiotics are bought for and used on. I think in Denmark, all fertiliser bought has to be part of an audit-able fertiliser plan and you can not buy more than certain limits for application to the number of IACS acres you have.

That should be tied in with bcms imo, so all vaccinations and disease status are recorded with the animal, but I can't see it happening.

 

[Henarar]

That should be tied in with bcms imo, so all vaccinations and disease status are recorded with the animal, but I can't see it happening.

that is what is proposed unfortunately and I can see it happening, unfortunately

 

[Sid]

talking to the vet the other day, he thinks that eventually we will all have on line medicines records, which will tie in with on line records from the vet so there will be an audit trail to show which animals the antibiotics are bought for and used on. I think in Denmark, all fertiliser bought has to be part of an audit-able fertiliser plan and you can not buy more than certain limits for application to the number of IACS acres you have.

Medicine stock control on farm will become an every increasing necessity

 

[Sid]

That should be tied in with bcms imo, so all vaccinations and disease status are recorded with the animal, but I can't see it happening.

Data protection will prevent alot of this.

 

[O'Reilly]

That should be tied in with bcms imo, so all vaccinations and disease status are recorded with the animal, but I can't see it happening.

I can. The latest herdwatch app has a barcode scanner, so you take the barcode of the drug bottle, the details automatically come up, enter it for the animal. The app is already linked to bcms, there's only one more step to join it all up. @Herdwatch is that about right?
And data protection won't matter if it's seen to be in the public good, well be asked to sign a disclaimer that we're OK with it, and if we don't, no sfp, no rt, no buyer for our produce, unless we sell direct, but then the FSA will be on to us instead.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

interested to hear that vets practices are also benchmarking, number of farm clients/amount of antibiotics prescribed

 

[kiwi pom]

This has turned into a complete witch hunt as per most of the conventional/organic debates on here.

We converted end of Oct 17, does our milk taste any different? No, do I feel more confident explaining to the public about what we are doing on the farm (we have a campsite so is a almost daily occurance in the summer) yes because the majority of the public hate the idea of sprays/fertilisers because they don’t understand it!

Even though we all pretty much know glyphosate causes no harm what so ever it’s what the consumer thinks that matters at the end of the day. If the consumer wants to buy milk which costs a bit more because they haven’t used herbicides/pesticide/artificial fertiliser then let them, any producer who criticises a consumer clearly has little understanding on how to sell.

One of the main reasons we joined OF&G is because of the way soil association has critisised conventional farming in the past. Why does something have to be better than something else why can’t it just be different or angled to a different consumer?!?

I agree with a lot of what Sid is saying and some of what others have said against him but to call organic production a ‘con’ is pathetic.

If you think your conventional British produced milk is better than German/French conventionally produced milk but happy to call uk organic milk a con then you are a hypocritical moron.

I think page 3 is about my limit on this thread as I'm sure it turns into the same old argument, so sorry if this points been made further on.
I refuse to buy organic for many of the reasons in your post.
Organic farmers can and do use 'sprays and fertilisers' just the ones that are seen as natural and yet most people think organic means NO pesticide use. I wonder where they get that from?
When they're tucking into their organic spuds do they think about the fact its probably been sprayed with copper sulphate every week.
Its the same with glyphosate most people have absolutely no idea about the effects of herbicides and yet they know just enough to say Round up is destroying the planet and must be banned immediately. Again where do they get that from the science certainly doesn't show this.
Organic is all about marketing and unfortunately groups like the soil association do it buy throwing 'conventional farming'- whatever that is - under the bus and (carefully) spreading misinformation suggesting 'organic' is healthier, more transparent and better for the environment.
Of course in order to save the planet you are going to have to pay more but think of the good your doing.
Its much with same with GMO's many of the same groups are opposed to them too. Why is that?
I don't think organic is a con as such but I do think many organic buyers are misinformed.

 

[Sid]

interested to hear that vets practices are also benchmarking, number of farm clients/amount of antibiotics prescribed

Ours has been for 2 years now. Impressive drop in 3rd and 4th gen antibiotics.
Credit where credit is due.

Both farmers and vets

 

[S J H]

that is what is proposed unfortunately and I can see it happening, unfortunately

What's the problem? You right it down in the medicine book anyway?

 

[Herdwatch]

I can. The latest herdwatch app has a barcode scanner, so you take the barcode of the drug bottle, the details automatically come up, enter it for the animal. The app is already linked to bcms, there's only one more step to join it all up. @Herdwatch is that about right?
And data protection won't matter if it's seen to be in the public good, well be asked to sign a disclaimer that we're OK with it, and if we don't, no sfp, no rt, no buyer for our produce, unless we sell direct, but then the FSA will be on to us instead.

@O'Reilly You are correct! The Irish version of the Herdwatch app allows you to scan barcodes and QR codes which means no more manually entering batch numbers or expiry dates.

The UK version of the Herdwatch app will have this in a week or two but you can already see everything that has been recorded to an animal.

This level of traceability will give farmers the edge in the years to come.

 

[Henarar]

What's the problem? You right it down in the medicine book anyway?

all been done to death on the EID thread

 

[Henarar]

This level of traceability will give farmers the edge in the years to come.

or another stick to beat us with

 

[peclova]

That should be tied in with bcms imo, so all vaccinations and disease status are recorded with the animal, but I can't see it happening.

+1

Often thought the same thing myself.

 

[peclova]

What's the problem? You right it down in the medicine book anyway?

Agreed. I would prefer having to record my usage on a central database rather than facing the inevitable alternative - having to get the vet come here for any POM treatments.

 

[O'Reilly]

@O'Reilly You are correct! The Irish version of the Herdwatch app allows you to scan barcodes and QR codes which means no more manually entering batch numbers or expiry dates.

The UK version of the Herdwatch app will have this in a week or two but you can already see everything that has been recorded to an animal.

This level of traceability will give farmers the edge in the years to come.

Can it quickly add up the number of mastitis cases in a year (or lameness or whatever) for farm assurance?

 

[Herdwatch]

@O'Reilly You can easily run a report that will show why cows were treated i.e lameness, mastitis, etc.

We are constantly updating it and adding more reports and functionality too.

 

[O'Reilly]

@O'Reilly You can easily run a report that will show why cows were treated i.e lameness, mastitis, etc.

We are constantly updating it and adding more reports and functionality too.

Let us know when the scanning capability is added in the uk, and I'll do the free trial.

 

[Herdwatch]

@O'Reilly I will let you know here

 

[som farmer]

I think page 3 is about my limit on this thread as I'm sure it turns into the same old argument, so sorry if this points been made further on.
I refuse to buy organic for many of the reasons in your post.
Organic farmers can and do use 'sprays and fertilisers' just the ones that are seen as natural and yet most people think organic means NO pesticide use. I wonder where they get that from?
When they're tucking into their organic spuds do they think about the fact its probably been sprayed with copper sulphate every week.
Its the same with glyphosate most people have absolutely no idea about the effects of herbicides and yet they know just enough to say Round up is destroying the planet and must be banned immediately. Again where do they get that from the science certainly doesn't show this.
Organic is all about marketing and unfortunately groups like the soil association do it buy throwing 'conventional farming'- whatever that is - under the bus and (carefully) spreading misinformation suggesting 'organic' is healthier, more transparent and better for the environment.
Of course in order to save the planet you are going to have to pay more but think of the good your doing.
Its much with same with GMO's many of the same groups are opposed to them too. Why is that?
I don't think organic is a con as such but I do think many organic buyers are misinformed.