Organic Nitrogen availability

[mikep]

Hi
Just wondering if anyone can clear up the time line in the release of nitrogen from root nodules of legumes. I.e once the plant is terminated how long is it before the n begins to be available for others and over what length of time does the release take place assuming termination in early august.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

It should be available as soon as the new plant can build a rootlet.
I know a couple who DD straight through living clover covers and then nail it down with sheep and cattle, organic nitrogen doesn't scorch rootlets, nor really inhibit germination, as it never really "floods the market" so to speak.
Once you have good mycorrhizal networks then the whole soil becomes a big happy family, like a hydroponic operation, for want of better description.

Unfortunately glyph doesn't really help the mycorrhizae anymore than the plant you kill with it....

 

[Great In Grass]

You could also add Mycorrhizal Fungi to the seed you are planting.

 

[mikep]

You could also add Mycorrhizal Fungi to the seed you are planting.

Pointless as we never get the silky white stuff on this land which is very photogenic but a much shorter type that binds soil tightly to the roots. I believe that the fungi 'heft' to the land so you need to encourage what you've got rather than parachute in another genotype. Also just because they are there doesn't mean they are doing anything useful if they or your system are wrong.

 

[SimonD]

You could also add Mycorrhizal Fungi to the seed you are planting.

Is that now openly available as a dressing option?

 

[Great In Grass]

Is that now openly available as a dressing option?

Yes as fine granules or a liquid, I'll send you some details.

 

[ih1455xl]

Yes as fine granules or a liquid, I'll send you some details.

Can you send us some info on it aswell @Great In Grass

 

[Great In Grass]

Can you send us some info on it aswell @Great In Grass

Sent you some background info, tech stuff tomorrow.

 

[Warp Land Farmer]

Yes as fine granules or a liquid, I'll send you some details.

Add me to the info dispatch list please

 

[Great In Grass]

Add me to the info dispatch list please

I'll send what I have in the next day or two, the product is in a fine granular form but we should also have a liquid product quite soon.

 

[Clive]

You could also add Mycorrhizal Fungi to the seed you are planting.

I’ve trialed seed applied mycorrhizal fungi before on beans and wheat and saw no response unfortunately

Theory is good but I don’t think it’s possible to apply enough to make a difference

Would be interested to see any trial data you have ? Post it up maybe ?

 

[Great In Grass]

I’ve trialed seed applied mycorrhizal fungi before on beans and wheat and saw no response unfortunately

Theory is good but I don’t think it’s possible to apply enough to make a difference

Would be interested to see any trial data you have ? Post it up maybe ?

Did you use a granular or a liquid product?

It's doesn't work on brassicas or OSR not to sure about beans but is OK for cereals.

There is trial data within the brochure which comes from Oregon State University, I'll ask if they have more in depth data.

This will be all new for me this coming season, I'm told that the system will develop and multiply through root connections over time. If the farmer is direct drilling or min tilling then a stable environment should help the fungus develop, this can be measured apparently.

 

[Kevtherev]

Anyone needing to know about mycorrhizae fungi needs to speak to the university of york.
Extensive trials done over many years.

 

[Simon Chiles]

I’ve trialed seed applied mycorrhizal fungi before on beans and wheat and saw no response unfortunately

Theory is good but I don’t think it’s possible to apply enough to make a difference

Would be interested to see any trial data you have ? Post it up maybe ?

Did you use a granular or a liquid product?

It's doesn't work on brassicas or OSR not to sure about beans but is OK for cereals.

There is trial data within the brochure which comes from Oregon State University, I'll ask if they have more in depth data.

This will be all new for me this coming season, I'm told that the system will develop and multiply through root connections over time. If the farmer is direct drilling or min tilling then a stable environment should help the fungus develop, this can be measured apparently.

I’ve seen yield increases from mycorrhizal applications. Last year I did some trials for Plantworks with mycorrhizal and N fixing bacteria in some Spring Barley. We had a base level of 15% root length correlation despite it being a cover crop of straight mustard over winter, I think a bit of grass weed helped the situation, and it rose to 30% on the treated plot which translated into a yield increase according to the ear counts and my ( uncalibrated ) yield map. Mycorrhizae associate with legumes and you need to stain them and look under a microscope to see them in the plant root cells. I think the guys that weren’t into direct drilling for so long had no base level root length correlation and it rose to 5 to 8 % after application. They suspect that I’ve a better system of application ( I feed the mycorrhizae into the drill venturi opposite the seed ) which gives better results. I’m more excited about the N fixing bacteria and think Plantworks have made some very important discoveries in the last year. We’re in the N fixing bacteria trial program again this year and are going to try it on some OSR, wheat and fodder beet. I might also try some on some grass as we’ve used N fixing bacteria successfully on grass in the past.

 

[Clive]

Did you use a granular or a liquid product?

It's doesn't work on brassicas or OSR not to sure about beans but is OK for cereals.

There is trial data within the brochure which comes from Oregon State University, I'll ask if they have more in depth data.

This will be all new for me this coming season, I'm told that the system will develop and multiply through root connections over time. If the farmer is direct drilling or min tilling then a stable environment should help the fungus develop, this can be measured apparently.

Used a liquid product applied on the drill placed with seed

We tried it in wheat and beans - admittedly the trial was only one season and not replicated etc just a tram line trial but there was no visual difference or yield increase

I’m very sceptical that it can be applied in anything like a qty that can make a difference

 

[Clive]

I’ve seen yield increases from mycorrhizal applications. Last year I did some trials for Plantworks with mycorrhizal and N fixing bacteria in some Spring Barley. We had a base level of 15% root length correlation despite it being a cover crop of straight mustard over winter, I think a bit of grass weed helped the situation, and it rose to 30% on the treated plot which translated into a yield increase according to the ear counts and my ( uncalibrated ) yield map. Mycorrhizae associate with legumes and you need to stain them and look under a microscope to see them in the plant root cells. I think the guys that weren’t into direct drilling for so long had no base level root length correlation and it rose to 5 to 8 % after application. They suspect that I’ve a better system of application ( I feed the mycorrhizae into the drill venturi opposite the seed ) which gives better results. I’m more excited about the N fixing bacteria and think Plantworks have made some very important discoveries in the last year. We’re in the N fixing bacteria trial program again this year and are going to try it on some OSR, wheat and fodder beet. I might also try some on some grass as we’ve used N fixing bacteria successfully on grass in the past.

Watching with interest - would you pay for it though ?

The N fixing bacteria sounds very intestesting

 

[Simon Chiles]

Used a liquid product applied on the drill placed with seed

We tried it in wheat and beans - admittedly the trial was only one season and not replicated etc just a tram line trial but there was no visual difference or yield increase

I’m very sceptical that it can be applied in anything like a qty that can make a difference

I suspect it’s quality of product rather than quantity. It’s a bit like rhizobium in Soya, there are plenty of manufacturers of it ( and their products contain large quantities) but it’s of little use if it isn’t alive when the plant needs it. For the Soya rhizobium the secret is in the polymers they add to the carriers that makes all the difference. The same is probably true for the mycorrhizal fungi, you may well be applying it but you wouldn’t have a clue about whether it was alive or not. I know some of the product is spores but Plantworks products are more than just the spores.

 

[ih1455xl]

Is this the same sort of thing as twin N as we tried it 10 of years ago and the only diffemce we could see was 2in taller in the maize

 

[Warnesworth]

With AMF, I am quite certain that if the environment (the soil) isn't right then they will not survive and thrive. I am confident that most cultivated soils and probably soils in an early no-till situation are not a good environment for AMF, hence little or no response.

 

[Simon Chiles]

I've started a new thread in Cropping as this has gone off topic.