Panorama

[Hampton]

His claims that root crops are damaging, especially in relation to other types of agriculture. I'd like to see a like for like on land use, water use, offrun, emissions etc.
Come back to me with that, we know what it will say.

It will say that root crops are irrigated in the summer and harvested in winter when it’s most muddy damaging the soil structure.
What do you think it will say

 

[Speckle]

You asked for statistics to another users reply, about root crops, I merely asked what you wanted to know, his response was quite clear, if you had any concept of agricultural practices, you understand what he wrote.

I understand exactly what he wrote and that it was his perspective.

You don't need to be an expert to understand that. If you've got something to prove that those crops are damaging and especially in relation to other crops, then please provide it. Instead of trying to claim some sort of precedence. I'm not interested in misplaced one upmanship.

 

[Speckle]

I dont need to provide anything I only have to look a the brown river that adjoins this farm
after potato planting and lifting .Phosphates is a known problem and has been raised in PQT on a Wednesday only a few weeks ago.

'I don't need to prove anything'... well there you have it then. I'll just take your word for it. Totally non biased word with no ulterior motive.

 

[Speckle]

It will say that root crops are irrigated in the summer and harvested in winter when it’s most muddy damaging the soil structure.
What do you think it will say

Please tell me how that compares with other food production.. water use for cattle for example. Are you suggesting that we eat nothing at all. Or are you suggesting a proven more sustainable alternative?

 

[Mark Hatton]

I understand exactly what he wrote and that it was his perspective.

You don't need to be an expert to understand that. If you've got something to prove that those crops are damaging and especially in relation to other crops, then please provide it. Instead of trying to claim some sort of precedence. I'm not interested in misplaced one upmanship.

I suggest you go and do some research, theres plenty of information out there. I not claiming any kind of precedence or oneupmanship, I've enough experience and knowledge to understand how most agricultural practices work, I don't need to back it up with a stat sheet. What first hand experience of commercial farming have you got?

 

[Mr Jones]

Didn't watch it. But a mate texted me who's now retired from farming, to say that a large dairy farm in Carmarthenshire featured in the show. I don't suppose it was painted in a good light. Was the owner interviewed? Or was it some grainy 'hidden' cam footage.

 

[Bill the Bass]

His claims that root crops are damaging, especially in relation to other types of agriculture. I'd like to see a like for like on land use, water use, offrun, emissions etc.
Come back to me with that, we know what it will say.

go and look at UK river water quality maps as classified under the Water Framework Directive. You will find the worst water quality corresponds with areas of crop production for human consumption and the best water quality in areas are those where red meat and dairy production are the dominant land use.
Root crops and field scale veg production and its associated cultivation, harvesting and mass pesticide use are a disaster for water quality and water use/quantity. I spent 20 years working in academia and have Co written peer reviewed and published scientific papers on the subject.

 

[Speckle]

I suggest you go and do some research, theres plenty of information out there. I not claiming any kind of precedence or oneupmanship, I've enough experience and knowledge to understand how most agricultural practices work, I don't need to back it up with a stat sheet. What first hand experience of commercial farming have you got?

I suggest you go and do some research?
lols. did you just tell me to go google it? Ah well, that gets the hand then. The automatic response of every single person who doesn't have anything to back up what they are claiming.

Enjoy trolling thin air. I've got a couple of cupboards to pull out and a washing machine to fix before a long shift at work tomorrow. Sorry I wasted my time on you.
Thanks to those that have actually made valid points. And to those taking the points raised in the documentary seriously.

 

[lloyd]

Please tell me how that compares with other food production.. water use for cattle for example. Are you suggesting that we eat nothing at all. Or are you suggesting a proven more sustainable alternative?

Perhaps you should take a vegetable growing sabbatical and report
back to us ignorant yokels how it compares to grass fed livestock.

 

[Jrp221]

I look forward to you providing a statistical analysis comparing it with other types of agriculture, instead of your somewhat biased opinion.

To be fair, any crop that involves lifting the soil to harvest it is very likely to cause soil erosion and run off when wet. There is a massive amount of spuds grown locally, involving multiple deep cultivations and ridging, all contribute to erosion of the soil.

 

[Mark Hatton]

I suggest you go and do some research?
lols. did you just tell me to go google it? Ah well, that gets the hand then. The automatic response of every single person who doesn't have anything to back up what they are claiming.

Enjoy trolling thin air. I've got a couple of cupboards to pull out and a washing machine to fix before a long shift at work tomorrow. Sorry I wasted my time on you.
Thanks to those that have actually made valid points. And to those taking the points raised in the documentary seriously.

You changed the topic of conversation to alternative food production and don't like being told some very basic facts, how do you think commercial vegetable crops are planted and harvested? or even grown for that matter? There isn't an army of labourers, even less so since Brexit, it massive investment in machinery, chemicals water and fertiliser to get the yields and quality to produce a crop thats commercially viable.

 

[Mark Hatton]

I feel a moderation coming on!!

 

[Ted M]

I dont need to provide anything I only have to look a the brown river that adjoins this farm
after potato planting and lifting .Phosphates are a known problem and has been raised in PQT on a Wednesday only a few weeks ago.

A couple of years ago Dave Throup of EA fame posted a picture of the confluence of two brooks on an internal web page.
One was running crystal clear from upland pastures, the other was mud coloured from soil erosion from harvested veg land.
His words not mine.

 

[melted welly]

We've also come a long way from medieval times. It's not a case of going round with a pail collecting night soil and using that directly with no thermophilic composting or monitoring.

I’m not an idiot.

 

[Mark Hatton]

I’m not an idiot.

Don't waste your energy, I suspect they've left the building! All good for traffic!!

 

[farmerm]

Please tell me how that compares with other food production.. water use for cattle for example. Are you suggesting that we eat nothing at all. Or are you suggesting a proven more sustainable alternative?

There is water user and there is water use, water use stats need considering in their context. In the UK water is generally in excess... cattle consumption of water here is infinitely more sustainable than water used to irrigate other protein sources like pulses and nuts grown in and imported from more arid climates.

 

[lloyd]

A couple of years ago Dave Throup of EA fame posted a picture of the confluence of two brooks on an internal web page.
One was running crystal clear from upland pastures, the other was mud coloured from soil erosion from harvested veg land.
His words not mine.

The river here can go from clear enough to see fish in early summer
to something out of Charlie and the chocolate factory in a short time.
Mostly from run off from root growing ground .The sandy soil type doesn't help matters.

 

[melted welly]

We do this already though. Except that we very inefficiently send it through our water system and then separate it out. Plastics are another issue and I'd like to see where the data is that shows that animal products are not also affected by that issue. Certainly we know that the 'heavy metals' issue that is being touted in here is very much an issue with fish.

Let's see the data, like for like...

We do not apply human waste to arable land. I am in Scotland, it’s a stipulation of SQC that no land treated with sewage sludge is used for cropping. I’m also pretty certain RT fresh produce doesn’t allow it.

We don’t know more than we know about soil biology, I’d rather err on the side of caution regarding pharmaceutical contamination of sewage sludge and its build up affecting the crops grown in soil containing it.

 

[Hampton]

Please tell me how that compares with other food production.. water use for cattle for example. Are you suggesting that we eat nothing at all. Or are you suggesting a proven more sustainable alternative?

Water use for cattle is either ingested through their food (ie rain falls, grass sucks it up, cattle eat grass) or in water troughs where the cattle go and drink it.
We do not irrigate grass for cattle and sheep to eat.
Where have I said we shouldn’t eat anything?
We should eat a healthy balanced diet that in my opinion contains meat.
The point is that eating meat is not demonic and eating veg isn’t a panacea.
The ethical thing is entirely your opinion.
Most of us agree with you on feeding soya to cattle, but I also try not to include much soya in my own diet.
I’m not going to find loads of data on stuff, but then you didn’t either. You just posted an article from greenpeace

 

[Speckle]

Apparently my comments have been altered for alleged trolling.
Asking for evidence is not trolling.
That is an outright abuse of power Mark.
I hope you can live with your conscience