Pastured Poultry

[Humble Village Farmer]

Would this guy's system satisfy organic standards?
More work moving fences but they'd have the room.
It's a seasonal system though - I think you'd need more substantial/ weather proof housing for winter rearing.

Thought some might appreciate advice from those that have actually done it. Obviously not.

Thought some might appreciate advice from those that have actually done it. Obviously not.

Sorry, of course you are right to point out the negatives. What I meant was to have a positive attitude and treat these pitfalls as things to be overcome.

 

[Flyfisher93]

I have been super intrigued about this idea for a few years now; that is pasture poultry raised in mobile shelters. The "farm land" podcast episode with Ronan Byrne from Ireland is a really interesting listen. I am wondering if anyone thinks this type of operation could be run "remotely"? By that I mean, could I rent farm land say 10 minutes form my house and then travel to and from the ground where I rear the birds?

Any thoughts would be gratefully received,

jamie

 

[Poorbuthappy]

I have been super intrigued about this idea for a few years now; that is pasture poultry raised in mobile shelters. The "farm land" podcast episode with Ronan Byrne from Ireland is a really interesting listen. I am wondering if anyone thinks this type of operation could be run "remotely"? By that I mean, could I rent farm land say 10 minutes form my house and then travel to and from the ground where I rear the birds?

Any thoughts would be gratefully received,

jamie

I see no reason why not provided it is fairly close to keep costs down, and the site is not vulnerable to unwanted attention.
I use electric fencing around each pen to protect from foxes which otherwise could be another potential issue.

Talk to the right farmer, and there's even potential to rent some land from someone who can still get full use of it for other livestock. They would need to be rotationally grazing it however.
Indeed, that would be beneficial for the poultry.

 

[Fenwick]

Reading Regenerative Agriculture at the moment. In it Perkins has some interesting things to say about organic farming. In short, that it's what the world had before the chem ag we have now, and that the mismanagement of organic farming created most of the desertification across the world in the first place. So there's that. Personally I think it's a busted flush once people ask prying questions re the chems allowed in it.

Myself, increasingly I see no value in certifications generally. There will be exceptions to every rule.

Getting close enough to your customers to actually explain to them why you do it the way you do and what's different about it trumps selling certified produce as a "premium commodity" it seems.

Customer certified ?

Totally agree, selling to the customer is the way forward for me. This needs a collaborative approach, don't suppose there's anyone out there in the Cheshire area who wants to set up a CSA? DM me please.

It's all about market Access.

If you are close enough to your end client you may not néed certification.

Thé further away you are, thé more important external vérification becomes.

For perspective. Richard Perkins was well against the organice label.

"customer certified"

"beyond organic"

When he started selling though a Thiès party hé soon got organic certification for those productions which passed control.

 

[Flyfisher93]

Thanks poorbuthappy, I've been toying with the idea for a while and at some point I will take the plunge, even just to do it for personal friends and family use at first! I think if I had more than 50 birds it needs recorded somewhere but could keep it below that for a few runs until I get the swing of it!

Jamie

 

[Chasingmytail]

Ive never done a cost analysis as all our poultry was for our years worth freezer. I get my day olds from Piggots there is only usually 2 strains to chose from and they are excellent strains however the meat taste isnt amazing as if you crossed 2 meat birds, hatched and raised. This is the issue of getting numbers and quality birds I dont think unless you can get something like Le Bresse birds but finding an importer is a nightmare. I raised 12 from eggs off ebay. To get the quality and consistency I could only find Piggots which are crossed birds. The fat content is very good though I can obtain some nice yellow fat.

We raise as organic incl chick crumbs. Im not sure of what margins you need to make but I would assume youd be needing to retail these on the £14 - £18 structure.

Feed wise Hipeak utter nightmare though they dont stock just mix on request. Comes via courier which always turned into a flippin nightmare with 1 tonne bags. Always some driver moaning and they wont take the pallet off. Other than that the best price has been Molevalley but only comes in 25kg plastic (downfall) plus points is their stock control and free delivery and there is no drama. Buying in bulk is imperative.

Im lucky we have a friend who does similar but he has bought the kits and has worked in poultry slaughter. I set up the killing area and all birds are very calm and prayed for which I like. I then help out. Its a long day and not nice really.

 

[Chasingmytail]

Bulstone Springs Farm – Bulstone Springs Farm

These lot do Sasso - not sure how they obtain them.

 

[Hilly]

Joel s is fantastic what a way to farm great ! After watching him my gut feeling is he’s a farmer I’m not ! But and it’s a big but where do you get market for the likes of rabbit ? And it’s very very labour intense ? But he’s great farmer a proper farmer farming

 

[JohnGalway]

Joel s is fantastic what a way to farm great ! After watching him my gut feeling is he’s a farmer I’m not ! But and it’s a big but where do you get market for the likes of rabbit ? And it’s very very labour intense ? But he’s great farmer a proper farmer farming

I follow a lot of these kinds of farms, and I see a trend through them all regarding labour. They start advertising for interns etc, and offer learning opportunities which draws interested people obviously. I'm not for a second saying there's anything wrong with that, it's also a big earner for some. That's how they work the labour issue compared to other farms.

 

[Fenwick]

Personally I think it's a busted flush once people ask prying questions re the chems allowed in

What chems are they thén? Perhaps in fruit or wine

I follow a lot of these kinds of farms, and I see a trend through them all regarding labour. They start advertising for interns etc, and offer learning opportunities which draws interested people obviously. I'm not for a second saying there's anything wrong with that, it's also a big earner for some. That's how they work the labour issue compared to other farms.

this is a really important point. and to attract such intérest you néed a significantbpublic présence. byb writing Books, giving talks, Facebook, YouTube or Whatever.

it's a différent and very lucrative business model.

don't forget Joël was a journalist before being a farmer.

 

[JohnGalway]

What chems are they thén? Perhaps in fruit or wine


this is a really important point. and to attract such intérest you néed a significantbpublic présence. byb writing Books, giving talks, Facebook, YouTube or Whatever.

it's a différent and very lucrative business model.

don't forget Joël was a journalist before being a farmer.

For example, in Ireland anyway, if you are organic and you have a problem with ticks, you can take photographs of them on the animals and use a pour on with your vets permission. Also if you do an FEC and you have a parasite burden, again with agreement of your vet you may use conventional doses. This surprised me, but I didn't know much about organic before that day I visited an organic farm. I don't know what I was expecting, but it was discussed as they could nearly dose/pour at will. To be fair, those are animal welfare issues, and the withdrawal periods must be at least doubled compared to conventional farms afaik. I would think the general public might expect that no chemicals are used at all.

 

[Fenwick]

For example, in Ireland anyway, if you are organic and you have a problem with ticks, you can take photographs of them on the animals and use a pour on with your vets permission. Also if you do an FEC and you have a parasite burden, again with agreement of your vet you may use conventional doses. This surprised me, but I didn't know much about organic before that day I visited an organic farm. I don't know what I was expecting, but it was discussed as they could nearly dose/pour at will. To be fair, those are animal welfare issues, and the withdrawal periods must be at least doubled compared to conventional farms afaik. I would think the general public might expect that no chemicals are used at all.

Under organic rules, antibiotics are allowed as are wormers. but thérè are plenty of régulations and contraints concerning thérè use.

We had a problèm with ticks (red water) a few years back on some limousins we bought. they were 4 months from slaughter.

Thé treatment required was ivomec. Under organic rules web had to keep thèm 400 and something days before slaughter. We had around 50000€ locked up in unsellable animals.

It's pretty touch. But if péople pay a premium for organic, i think they deserve thé extra effort.

 

[Hilly]

I follow a lot of these kinds of farms, and I see a trend through them all regarding labour. They start advertising for interns etc, and offer learning opportunities which draws interested people obviously. I'm not for a second saying there's anything wrong with that, it's also a big earner for some. That's how they work the labour issue compared to other farms.

Yes I noticed that , basically the Labour is paying you rather than you paying them ! Clever but not for me I cant be botherd with people and I’m not a good deligator

 

[JohnGalway]

Yes I noticed that , basically the Labour is paying you rather than you paying them ! Clever but not for me I cant be botherd with people and I’m not a good deligator

Sit down now for a second




Because I'm gonna agree with you there

 

[Hilly]

Sit down now for a second




Because I'm gonna agree with you there

Hurray !! Welcome to the world of Hilly !! Ha ha ha

 

[Chasingmytail]

I think its safe to take some snippets out of JS but with his massive free labour and the different demographics. What I see is a lot of more switched on Americans do support the direct sell and local farm over what I think the public do here. Also being able to process chickens outdoors with interns willing to learn. Its all pretty positive and once again you are not seeing the disasters its all glossy.

I dont think the JS model is unique and much of the systems used were used here first. Old Time Poultry and Traditional Farming Ways on FB.

Alan Thompson's book 'The Complete Poultry Man' which was published way back in 1952.

 

[Fenwick]

I think its safe to take some snippets out of JS but with his massive free labour and the different demographics. What I see is a lot of more switched on Americans do support the direct sell and local farm over what I think the public do here. Also being able to process chickens outdoors with interns willing to learn. Its all pretty positive and once again you are not seeing the disasters its all glossy.

I dont think the JS model is unique and much of the systems used were used here first. Old Time Poultry and Traditional Farming Ways on FB.

Alan Thompson's book 'The Complete Poultry Man' which was published way back in 1952.

wow, brilliant find. thanks for sharing that.

 

[Poorbuthappy]

I think its safe to take some snippets out of JS but with his massive free labour and the different demographics. What I see is a lot of more switched on Americans do support the direct sell and local farm over what I think the public do here. Also being able to process chickens outdoors with interns willing to learn. Its all pretty positive and once again you are not seeing the disasters its all glossy.

I dont think the JS model is unique and much of the systems used were used here first. Old Time Poultry and Traditional Farming Ways on FB.

Alan Thompson's book 'The Complete Poultry Man' which was published way back in 1952.

To be fair to Joel, whilst he does obviously use a lot of interns, he costs out the whole pastured poultry system in his book on the subject, and it does add up in terms of covering the labour costs.

I don't agree with everything he says, but the bits I've heard from those who've actually been interns there are positive, including someone on here.

 

[wormy535]

Update on my test batch with the Suscovich tractor, kindly made my a friend. We almost at dispatch day and 47 of 50 have got there, and all looking pretty healthy to my inexperience eye. Certainly love the move to fresh grass daily, and I am staggered at the amount of greenery they eat and the impact on the range which has convinced me that keeping them moving is the best thing for both the birds and I hope also my grassland. I have 2 breeds from Piggots poultry, Hubbard 757 which have uniformly grown large and I was thinking better than the Hubbard colour yield which are more variable in size and overall smaller. However some of these larger birds are starting to go 'off their legs' with size and I wonder if they'd even make it to the 81 days needed under organic rules. Only just started conversion so I've time to work this out. Moving the range weekly at first, now every 2 days, and pulling the tractor along on its back wheels daily at first and now twice daily. The perch was given to me by a friend but after capturing this one photo op they just haven't shown any interest in using it. Feeding 3 times per day, pellets for the first 2 and corn for the last (I'm interested in anyone's advice here, that's been a learning curve). Had to upgrade to a much larger waterer, and without the quad I'd be struggling to carry enough water to the field to keep up. Overall, not more than 20 mins/day on average now that I'm getting quicker moving the range.

We're dispatching this lot ourselves, hitting peak turkey season wasn't clever for the test batch so no option. Thankfully a friend has produced a scalder and plucking machine to borrow. This is going to be a real learning experience but I'm glad to be getting the full farm to fork experience even if we decide to go to abbatoir when scaling up.

So, learned a lot so far and plenty that I need to explore in order to scale up in 2021, housing being the big one (no tractor and don't really want to be buying one or generating wheelings when ground conditions aren't ideal).

Would love to hear from others at any stage of the same journey.

 

[Blaithin]

Looks good to me!

The only thing I would suggest is changing your wire if and when you build new tractors. Chicken wire keeps chickens in, that's about it. Any predators can easily tear through it. A hardware cloth or page wire would be a much safer choice. I've seen lots of people take the page wire cattle/pig panels and bend them in a hoop and then cover with chicken wire. Light weight, taller for people access and still keeps predators out.

For water - this is all hypothetical and something I'm going to try, I haven't actually gotten around to it yet - I'm planning on running a small water pipe, like 1", out of a 5 gallon pail. Putting a number of water nipples in the pipe and filling the pail as needed. Hoping I can rig up some way for the pail to sit in a corner where I just have to pour water in the top and the pipe runs down the length of the tractor for easy access for birds. Works well in my mind anyway Lol