PepsiCo have switched to a 'more sustainable fuel'

[Jackov Altraids]

I don't understand all the hate. Seems a perfectly sensible and good idea to me.

I would very much like to see the full set of environmental calculations to see exactly impacts and benefits were attributed.
The person growing the crop to produce the vegetable oil will probably be carrying all the impacts of fertiliser/ diesel use and land use changes and everyone else gets the benefits of a green product?

 

[BrianV]

I don't understand all the hate. Seems a perfectly sensible and good idea to me.

I would very much like to see the full set of environmental calculations to see exactly impacts and benefits were attributed.
The person growing the crop to produce the vegetable oil will probably be carrying all the impacts of fertiliser/ diesel use and land use changes and everyone else gets the benefits of a green product?

And who is it that ends up getting the blame for polluting I wonder.

 

[Jackov Altraids]

And who is it that ends up getting the blame for polluting I wonder.

The impact of using a field should be the same, whatever the end purpose of its crop should be.
It isn't.

 

[BRB John]

I don't understand all the hate. Seems a perfectly sensible and good idea to me.

I would very much like to see the full set of environmental calculations to see exactly impacts and benefits were attributed.
The person growing the crop to produce the vegetable oil will probably be carrying all the impacts of fertiliser/ diesel use and land use changes and everyone else gets the benefits of a green product?

Well the grower should be properly compensated so they can address these costs and to do it in such as way that doesn't result with pollution.

 

[Tractorstant]

HVO has now become so "popular" for greenwashing, that some fast food chains are now using a fresh batch of oil every day and selling the used as it's more profitable!!! Go figure.

 

[delilah]

HVO has now become so "popular" for greenwashing, that some fast food chains are now using a fresh batch of oil every day and selling the used as it's more profitable!!! Go figure.

It's an ill wind......we once went to a franchise of a popular burger business and collected the oil, it was black, probably the most over-fried batch we ever collected.

 

[BRB John]

HVO has now become so "popular" for greenwashing, that some fast food chains are now using a fresh batch of oil every day and selling the used as it's more profitable!!! Go figure.

Well isn't that preferably to being forced into hydrogen or electric lorries?
If it means I can run my tractor on HVO I'd gladly take that offer over the other options...

 

[Clive]

That sounds very saintly.

Until you consider that their sole reason to exist is to make ultra high profit margins for their share holders, from the sale of vast volumes of high calorific junk food to an increasingly obese global population, and the untold early deaths that ultimately result from their targeted marketing aimed at children. All while maintaining an image of being ultra 'PC', inclusive and environmentally conscious; and it's quite a trick to convince people it's not 'the slowest form of manslaughter known' if you employ all the top advertising and PR agencies.

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^^^ 100% this - make no mistake the CEO and board of any such company has a first duty to shareholders to maximise profits and share price

 

[Clive]

You're making the assumption that humans are brainless morons that aren't capable of making decisions.
PepsiCo has never made any one fat people make themselves fat.

Not true .......... in fact you could simply not be any further wrong

have a read of the National food strategy or Henry Dimbelbys book "Ravenous" or another good book "Ultra Processed People"

Its utterly shocking what big business has done to our food and the consequences are going to be huge

 

[BRB John]

Not true .......... in fact you could simply not be any further wrong

have a read of the National food strategy or Henry Dimbelbys book "Ravenous" or another good book "Ultra Processed People"

Its utterly shocking what big business has done to our food and the consequences are going to be huge

Which bit?
People being morons or Pepsi intentionally making them fat?

 

[Clive]

Which bit?
People being morons or Pepsi intentionally making them fat?

have a read of any of my 3 recommendations above - none are written without solid evidence ALL are truly shocking

but in summary ......... both

 

[chickens and wheat]

On my holidays a virgin cruise ship was in dock across the bay, constantly spewing a plume of black brown smoke, other cruise ships i saw had no visible smoke,

I googled and found the virgin ship was very new and used modern eco fuels.
Not great for the people in Ibiza town smoke is still smoke

 

[Brisel]

Are you still growing oats for Quaker/PepsiCo @PSQ ?

 

[PSQ]

Are you still growing oats for Quaker/PepsiCo @PSQ ?

No, life is too short.

 

[ollie989898]

Indeed but how far can we push it? Think it's 10% at the moment?
I assume this HVO is just biodiesel but infused with hydrogen or something could that work for tractors?

HVO is an entirely different fuel. Biodiesel is a pretty crude product. HVO is diesel made from a vegetable feedstock but far superior to biodiesel. HVO is a drop in replacement for conventional diesel. Biodiesel is not.

It's also (like biodiesel) rather more expensive than conventional diesel.

 

[BRB John]

HVO is an entirely different fuel. Biodiesel is a pretty crude product. HVO is diesel made from a vegetable feedstock but far superior to biodiesel. HVO is a drop in replacement for conventional diesel. Biodiesel is not.

It's also (like biodiesel) rather more expensive than conventional diesel.

More expensive than hydrogen? Or God help us batteries?
Diesel won't be an option in the future so as far as I see it out options are HVO, biodiesel, hydrogen, methane or batteries.
I'd like to keep my diesel tractors running as long as possible if HVO allows me to do it then win win

 

[ollie989898]

More expensive than hydrogen? Or God help us batteries?
Diesel won't be an option in the future so as far as I see it out options are HVO, biodiesel, hydrogen, methane or batteries.
I'd like to keep my diesel tractors running as long as possible if HVO allows me to do it then win win

HVO is hydrogenated vegetable oil. Like biodiesel, it uses vegetable based feedstocks but it does not cause esterification as would occur making biodiesel. It's a different chemical process and the net result is hydrocarbon compounds which are very much the same as those found in diesel. In fact, you can make nearly any length of hydrocarbon molecules and so you could in fact make a fuel which is closer to kerosene, diesel or petrol/gasoline if you so wished. At a chemical level it is nearly identical to conventional diesel. The downside it isn't as energy dense as conventional diesel but in practice it has a higher cetane number which gives better performance in diesel engines, lower levels of contaminants and no aromatic compounds so it doesn't smell like diesel, either. It's also a more complex process to produce so I suspect it is more expensive than regular diesel though probably not much more than GTL diesel.

There are some suppliers in the UK of HVO heating oil. It tends to be marketed as being 90% CO2 free. Virtually any fats can be used as feedstocks to make it, so palm oil, soya oil and the like can be used. It's basically a drop in replacement for conventional diesel, too.

 

[Brisel]

What is the waxing point for HVO?

 

[ollie989898]

What is the waxing point for HVO?

It will be in this very detailed technical document from one of the manufacturers- I presume they use their own proprietary process. I think it is actually superior to diesel when it comes to waxing and low temperature performance. I suspect the better cetane number is in part due to the fact the proportion of hydrocarbons in it is biased toward the shorter chained molecules rather than longer. They also describe the manufacturing process chemistry in detail.

https://www.neste.com/sites/default/files/attachments/neste_renewable_diesel_handbook.pdf

 

[PSQ]

So PepsiCo are using HVO to save the planet are they?

I wonder what fuel they use in their fleet of 6 executive jets?

This is from an older list and reg's may not be current. They're very private about their fleet, for obvious reasons:

Edit to add, at the 2023 PepsiCo AGM a shareholder group proposed that the board should refrain from using executive jets, as PepsiCo are the 15th biggest corporate user of jets in the US, and the board are not following their own low carbon ethos:

This significant cost undermines the Company’s public statements on addressing the issue of climate change that it deems so critical.9 The “rules for thee, but not for me” mentality has become pervasive throughout corporate c-suites. It has become vital that companies address and remove the inconsistencies between corporate positioning and executive behavior, and report to shareholders and to the public the workplace footprints of executives and directors at PepsiCo.

This was the PepsiCo boards rather arrogant reply:

So, farmers of Britain, when Scott's Porridge Oats (PepsiCo) demand that you fill in a LEAF audit in order to sell to them, or Walkers Crisps make you jump through endless hoops, remember to tell them that their blatant greenwashing is a load of complete and utter bulls**t.