Planning Applications, PD and the like (General Chat)

[BunnysRock]

No difference, Prior Approval and Prior Notification, they are totally interchangable terms.
The application you make is a Prior Approval application but it is commonly known as Prior Notification. The application is to 'notify' the Local Authority that you wish to develop and you are seeking whether you require their 'approval'.

Many thanks for the reply George. I ask because the planning submitted under "prior notification" by our neighbours just has prior approval needed as a reply by the Council. So I'm a bit confused as to the next step. If they resubmit the exact same application under prior approval is it still subject to the consultation period where we can object?

Part of their application involved part "commercial" use of the shed/barn, so I would have thought that this would need full planning for change of use?

Sorry if I sound a bit thick!

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Many thanks for the reply George. I ask because the planning submitted under "prior notification" by our neighbours just has prior approval needed as a reply by the Council. So I'm a bit confused as to the next step. If they resubmit the exact same application under prior approval is it still subject to the consultation period where we can object?

Part of their application involved part "commercial" use of the shed/barn, so I would have thought that this would need full planning for change of use?

Sorry if I sound a bit thick!

Not at all, the application will now continue to be determined as per a planning application, but with the strict parameters of the Change of Use. There are certain Changes of Use that can be undertaken with Prior Approval. Depending on the Use Class they are changing to will depend on the parameters it will be assessed against.

If you wish to object then email the planning deptartment with your objection, don't wait to be asked - in most Local Authorities the notification to neighbours is by site notice only. The days of letters being posted are long gone.

 

[BunnysRock]

Not at all, the application will now continue to be determined as per a planning application, but with the strict parameters of the Change of Use. There are certain Changes of Use that can be undertaken with Prior Approval. Depending on the Use Class they are changing to will depend on the parameters it will be assessed against.

If you wish to object then email the planning deptartment with your objection, don't wait to be asked - in most Local Authorities the notification to neighbours is by site notice only. The days of letters being posted are long gone.

We only found out about the prior notification by chance as a neighbour spotted it on the councils website! There wasn't even a site notice posted let alone a letter!

Several of our neighbours including us wrote objecting to the original application, so would we need to resubmit these or are these already on record and taken into consideration by the council?

 

[George from SJM Planning]

We only found out about the prior notification by chance as a neighbour spotted it on the councils website! There wasn't even a site notice posted let alone a letter!

Several of our neighbours including us wrote objecting to the original application, so would we need to resubmit these or are these already on record and taken into consideration by the council?

It is one and the same application so they will be on record. If it has gone this far there are obviously concerns that warrants a case officer taking a closer look.
Site notices are easy to hide, an unscrupulous could put it on a gate and then leave the gate swung open so the notice is hidden. Or park a van in front of it. Councils are so stretched in their planning departments that they sometimes ask the applicants to errect the notice and send a photograph of it to the council for records. It should be visible for 21 days but who is checking.

 

[BunnysRock]

It is one and the same application so they will be on record. If it has gone this far there are obviously concerns that warrants a case officer taking a closer look.
Site notices are easy to hide, an unscrupulous could put it on a gate and then leave the gate swung open so the notice is hidden. Or park a van in front of it. Councils are so stretched in their planning departments that they sometimes ask the applicants to errect the notice and send a photograph of it to the council for records. It should be visible for 21 days but who is checking.

Another neighbour had to do exactly that! They've applied via full planning but had to print off, post their own notice and then take a picture to send to the council to prove they'd done it! They'd done it legit, but the photo could have been on a fence post in their back garden for all the council knew! But the other application stated no site notice was required at all?

 

[Loftyrules]

Hi @George from SJM Planning can I ask you the implications of changing a horse arena from private use to commercial use? Would we incur business rates etc?

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Hi @George from SJM Planning can I ask you the implications of changing a horse arena from private use to commercial use? Would we incur business rates etc?

I'm not sure on the business rates I'm afraid, that is a minefield I stear clear of.

When applying for commercial use you will need to quantify the increase in traffic, parking, hours of use, business plan etc.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Wow! Just Wow!

What kind of staff now work in planning?

Animal rescue centre told planning bid 'proper whack'

A council says the response to sanctuary boss Amey James' application shouldn't have been published.

www.bbc.co.uk

An animal sanctuary boss was left shocked when her planning application was turned down on the grounds it was "proper whack".
Amey James, owner of Happy Pants Ranch, Kent, had been awaiting a decision for six months.
When finally issued with a refusal she found the street slang - meaning "very bad" - given as the reason.
Swale Borough Council blamed an error but said published decisions must be overturned by a court.
Ms James was among five applicants who found the bizarre comments on their submissions.
Another, to partially demolish The Wheatsheaf pub in Sittingbourne to build flats and a micropub, was approved on the grounds of "Incy. Wincy. Spider".
A third was approved with the text: "Why am I doing this am I the chosen one", and the fourth simply listed numbers one to 20.
Once published decisions are legally binding and each must be officially overturned by a court, the council said, meaning a further delay of at least three months before the cases could be reconsidered.
"This language was used by a junior officer with no knowledge of any of the applications, who believed they were working solely in a test environment and that the comments would never be published," the authority said.


The error by the Mid Kent Planning Support team also affected a sixth application from Maidstone Borough Council.
An application for a farm in Marden to convert an outbuilding into a holiday let was refused with the explanation "Don't even bother re-applying lol. Not even joking lmao."

Maidstone Borough Council leader David Burton said the error was "regrettable" and added: "I would like to apologise for any offence caused."
Swale Borough Council offered an explanation for the error, and said: "Officers for Mid Kent Planning Support team were testing a solution for issues with the software behind the public access site.
"During this testing an error occurred, which published dummy decision notices on five randomly selected Swale applications on the live system.
"Legal advice has subsequently confirmed they are legally binding and must be overturned before the correct decisions are made."

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Wow! Just Wow!

What kind of staff now work in planning?

Animal rescue centre told planning bid 'proper whack'

A council says the response to sanctuary boss Amey James' application shouldn't have been published.

www.bbc.co.uk

An animal sanctuary boss was left shocked when her planning application was turned down on the grounds it was "proper whack".
Amey James, owner of Happy Pants Ranch, Kent, had been awaiting a decision for six months.
When finally issued with a refusal she found the street slang - meaning "very bad" - given as the reason.
Swale Borough Council blamed an error but said published decisions must be overturned by a court.
Ms James was among five applicants who found the bizarre comments on their submissions.
Another, to partially demolish The Wheatsheaf pub in Sittingbourne to build flats and a micropub, was approved on the grounds of "Incy. Wincy. Spider".
A third was approved with the text: "Why am I doing this am I the chosen one", and the fourth simply listed numbers one to 20.
Once published decisions are legally binding and each must be officially overturned by a court, the council said, meaning a further delay of at least three months before the cases could be reconsidered.
"This language was used by a junior officer with no knowledge of any of the applications, who believed they were working solely in a test environment and that the comments would never be published," the authority said.


The error by the Mid Kent Planning Support team also affected a sixth application from Maidstone Borough Council.
An application for a farm in Marden to convert an outbuilding into a holiday let was refused with the explanation "Don't even bother re-applying lol. Not even joking lmao."

Maidstone Borough Council leader David Burton said the error was "regrettable" and added: "I would like to apologise for any offence caused."
Swale Borough Council offered an explanation for the error, and said: "Officers for Mid Kent Planning Support team were testing a solution for issues with the software behind the public access site.
"During this testing an error occurred, which published dummy decision notices on five randomly selected Swale applications on the live system.
"Legal advice has subsequently confirmed they are legally binding and must be overturned before the correct decisions are made."

This is our local Validation Team! They are a nightmare to deal with, we have open complaints about their lack of understanding, timescales and unprofessionalism with regard to multiple applications.

The latest one is the request for a tree survey because there is a singular ornamental cherry in a garden! They are refusing to validate the application until the survey is done - if they are going to play like that the tree will be gone tomorrow!

Another one they are refusing to allow the free-go on a resubmission (best part of £2k) becuase the agent is different. Totally irrelevant but to avoid holding up the application we have paid it and will fight to get it back.

They are an amalgamation of two Local Authority Validation Teams and I am unsure of thier constitutional position and oversight. Worrying times.

 

[teslacoils]

Tbh the "animal sanctuary" sounded a total comedy - retrospective etc, and linked stories of noise issue. For a handful of Guinea pigs they want on site accomodation!

 

[br jones]

This is our local Validation Team! They are a nightmare to deal with, we have open complaints about their lack of understanding, timescales and unprofessionalism with regard to multiple applications.

The latest one is the request for a tree survey because there is a singular ornamental cherry in a garden! They are refusing to validate the application until the survey is done - if they are going to play like that the tree will be gone tomorrow!

Another one they are refusing to allow the free-go on a resubmission (best part of £2k) becuase the agent is different. Totally irrelevant but to avoid holding up the application we have paid it and will fight to get it back.

They are an amalgamation of two Local Authority Validation Teams and I am unsure of thier constitutional position and oversight. Worrying times.

i think a lot of planning authoritys are a complete shambles ,ours is similar to above

 

[bobk]

i think a lot of planning authoritys are a complete shambles ,ours is similar to above

They all are , ours has an horrendous suicide rate amongst planning officials

 

[George from SJM Planning]

They all are , ours has an horrendous suicide rate amongst planning officials

It is not a happy profession to be in I'm afraid. The planning system is broken and it is the Case Officers that get the brunt of the anger. The exodus of Chartered Town Planners from Local Authorities is frightening plus a lot of them are starting up as Planning Consultants in the private sector. The market will soon be overun with Planning Consultants and they will then end up sub-contracting to Local Authorities to fill the void they left.

 

[Steevo]

It is not a happy profession to be in I'm afraid. The planning system is broken and it is the Case Officers that get the brunt of the anger. The exodus of Chartered Town Planners from Local Authorities is frightening plus a lot of them are starting up as Planning Consultants in the private sector. The market will soon be overun with Planning Consultants and they will then end up sub-contracting to Local Authorities to fill the void they left.

All in the search of that holy grail......"efficiency".

 

[br jones]

All in the search of that holy grail......"efficiency".

but they have made it a difficult issue with many rules and too many inputs ,anyone can form a group and then can comment on applications,too many cooks for what in all essence is a simple decision in most cases

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

but they have made it a difficult issue with many rules and too many inputs ,anyone can form a group and then can comment on applications,too many cooks for what in all essence is a simple decision in most cases

The only simple planning decisions are those that are clearly not in accordance with the rules (an easy refusal) or those that don't require pp.

In my experience very few of the others are actually simple once you grasp the complexity of the system.........

 

[br jones]

The only simple planning decisions are those that are clearly not in accordance with the rules (an easy refusal) or those that don't require pp.

In my experience very few of the others are actually simple once you grasp the complexity of the system.........

Rubbish ,simple extension on houses here are taking 6 to 8 months to be considered,every application must have a bat survey , surveys only between May and September,nesting bird survey,tree survey ,some cases a grassland survey,suds tests and drainage design (8weeks for suds approval) ,phosphate testing ,nrw ecologists consulted , council ecologists consulted, water board consulted ,highways consulted,and a few others I forgotten,then the nimbys objections ,it's a minefield of stupdity

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Rubbish ,simple extension on houses here are taking 6 to 8 months to be considered,every application must have a bat survey , surveys only between May and September,nesting bird survey,tree survey ,some cases a grassland survey,suds tests and drainage design (8weeks for suds approval) ,phosphate testing ,nrw ecologists consulted , council ecologists consulted, water board consulted ,highways consulted,and a few others I forgotten,then the nimbys objections ,it's a minefield of stupdity

We are still getting most through in 8 weeks but that is largely because we know which surveys will be required and have them done prior to submission.
The surveys are there for a reason and it is up to the applicant or their agent to be aware of these before submission. It is an easy way out for the council if the application isn't suitably prepared

 

[Kidds]

If someone comes to you in October wanting to submit an application you are not going to get that through in 8 weeks if they insist on a bat survey which you can't do until May.
I think the property next door but one is on their fourth bat survey in as many years. One for class Q, one for full planning, one for a variation on planning by the purchaser and another because he wanted patio doors. All the surveys say the same thing and it is a bloody nonsense!

 

[George from SJM Planning]

If someone comes to you in October wanting to submit an application you are not going to get that through in 8 weeks if they insist on a bat survey which you can't do until May.
I think the property next door but one is on their fourth bat survey in as many years. One for class Q, one for full planning, one for a variation on planning by the purchaser and another because he wanted patio doors. All the surveys say the same thing and it is a bloody nonsense!

Unfortunately that is what we have to advise our clients. If they wish to proceed without then as is the case with one of ours now the council are refusing to validate it.
In most cases a PEA is sufficient and this can be done at any time. It is only if the PEA identifies bats and they have sufficient concern to require on site studies does the October to May take affect.