Planning problems

[ploughman1963]

I am advised that gaining planning permission for chicken and pig sheds in Shropshire is extremely challenging at present - Herefordshire and Powys are similarly difficult. I spoke to the well known planning consultant Ian Pick who deals with a lot of chicken and pig shed applications. It seems that the main stumbling block is the ammonia emissions calculations that are applied and that very few potential sites are more than 5k from a SSSI. Apparently, applications are backed up for the last 18 months. Mr Pick's advice is that he would not advise anyone to make an application for such a unit until Shropshire Council decide how they are going to handle the ammonia emissions subject. Is Mr Pick unduly pessimistic or being realistic? Is there another specialist who I could consult?

 

[R J]

Ian really knows his stuff and is very good at what he does, so I would say being realistic,
What's the score with being within 5k of a sssi ?

 

[ploughman1963]

I agree, he knows his stuff so it doesnt look good.

"There is a big problem at the moment in Shropshire regarding ammonia impacts to SSSI and SAC sites, and they have rules that are nearly impossible to comply with.

For a 2000 pig unit the ammonia screening tool, shows between 24% and 32% process contribution (the Shropshire threshold is 1%). The way things are in Shropshire at the moment, it is going to be very difficult to get anything through the system.

They haven’t made a decision on the majority of pig and poultry applications in Shropshire for at least 18 months, so everything that has been submitted in the last 18 months is just stuck in the system. Until Shropshire issue a clear policy on ammonia impacts, I wouldn’t advise anyone to submit a planning application."

If you are within 5Km of an SSSI, then the ammonia impact assessment kicks in and looks like chicken and pig sheds exceed the levels required. I did hear about someone fitting 'scrubbers' to the shed at an additional cost of £50K but I am not sure if that was for smell or ammonia emissions.

 

[Luke Cropwalker]

I agree, he knows his stuff so it doesnt look good.

"There is a big problem at the moment in Shropshire regarding ammonia impacts to SSSI and SAC sites, and they have rules that are nearly impossible to comply with.

For a 2000 pig unit the ammonia screening tool, shows between 24% and 32% process contribution (the Shropshire threshold is 1%). The way things are in Shropshire at the moment, it is going to be very difficult to get anything through the system.

They haven’t made a decision on the majority of pig and poultry applications in Shropshire for at least 18 months, so everything that has been submitted in the last 18 months is just stuck in the system. Until Shropshire issue a clear policy on ammonia impacts, I wouldn’t advise anyone to submit a planning application."

If you are within 5Km of an SSSI, then the ammonia impact assessment kicks in and looks like chicken and pig sheds exceed the levels required. I did hear about someone fitting 'scrubbers' to the shed at an additional cost of £50K but I am not sure if that was for smell or ammonia emissions.

Apparently Danish pig producers get grants towards the cost of ammonia scrubbers. Trouble is they use a lot of electricity so they often forget to switch them on.

 

[R J]

I agree, he knows his stuff so it doesnt look good.

"There is a big problem at the moment in Shropshire regarding ammonia impacts to SSSI and SAC sites, and they have rules that are nearly impossible to comply with.

For a 2000 pig unit the ammonia screening tool, shows between 24% and 32% process contribution (the Shropshire threshold is 1%). The way things are in Shropshire at the moment, it is going to be very difficult to get anything through the system.

They haven’t made a decision on the majority of pig and poultry applications in Shropshire for at least 18 months, so everything that has been submitted in the last 18 months is just stuck in the system. Until Shropshire issue a clear policy on ammonia impacts, I wouldn’t advise anyone to submit a planning application."

If you are within 5Km of an SSSI, then the ammonia impact assessment kicks in and looks like chicken and pig sheds exceed the levels required. I did hear about someone fitting 'scrubbers' to the shed at an additional cost of £50K but I am not sure if that was for smell or ammonia emissions.

Hmmm , doesn't sound good , we are north herefordshire and I'm glad we built our hen sheds when we did 6 years ago ,
Things have changed a lot since then ,
Is it pigs you are looking at ?

 

[ploughman1963]

Hmmm , doesn't sound good , we are north herefordshire and I'm glad we built our hen sheds when we did 6 years ago ,
Things have changed a lot since then ,
Is it pigs you are looking at ?

Yes, I have a 1000 pig shed for B&B already - just wish I could have persuaded the older generation to have agreed to it a couple of years ago.

 

[Beef farmer]

Yes, I have a 1000 pig shed for B&B already - just wish I could have persuaded the older generation to have agreed to it a couple of years ago.

Straw bedding? Or slats?

 

[Beef farmer]

Equally difficult to get planning for a new dairy. We looked at it, replacing an old dairy with a green field site less than 400m away, it was going to be that difficult that we will convert and rebuild the old yard. Stupid thing is, we wouldn't have altered the amount of cows going to be there, but a green field site would have been far easier to keep contained and less slurry!
Natrual englands default setting is to day no and wait for you to come back with more details.
On the screening tool, we came out at 44% and the threshold is 1% as said above! Madness

 

[ploughman1963]

Straw bedding? Or slats?

straw. Although it seems the planners take no regard of which when considering ammonia emissions even though emmissions are easier to control with slats.

 

[Beef farmer]

straw. Although it seems the planners take no regard of which when considering ammonia emissions even though emmissions are easier to control with slats.

Machinery shed?

 

[ploughman1963]

So we stifle expansion/ diversificaton in this country and then import food from abroad - but at least they can ignore the emissions if they happen abroad.

 

[ploughman1963]

Machinery shed?

I asked that - would need to be a livestock shed otherwise would need change of use which would fall foul of the above. Apparently planners now ask which livestock and put a condition on that it is for what you say.

 

[Headless chicken]

We’ve got this problem in west Wales too, we’ve just resubmitted one app on the basis that we will appeal if they reject it again. They are basically putting a stop to any ag development

 

[ploughman1963]

From what I am told, the applications are stuck in limbo rather than being refused?

 

[Headless chicken]

From what I am told, the applications are stuck in limbo rather than being refused?

On ours we were told either withdraw and get a free re application or the case officer would be forced to reject it on insuffcient evidence. We withdrew and I sent an email to the relevant nrw department. They didn’t reply for a month so we sent it back in the the local councils backing.
I hope it won’t go to appeal as this is only part of the project due to their ridiculous charges on area.

edit - I should be clear here this is for an extension to an existing dairy setup which they’ve allowed a lot of planning up till now with no questions