Ploughing up arable reversion

Wait until the agreement lapses then bang 100 units of fertiliser on and hey presto! No longer unimproved land
If challenged though you have to admit to having improved the land without their consent hence though the deed is done you can still expect (for the next 2 years a Remediation Notice (similar to one above)/max £5k fine/cross compliance SFP breech penalty.)
Sorry guys I wanted to rejuvenate this thread as my Remediation Appeal is currently "hotting up."
 
If challenged though you have to admit to having improved the land without their consent hence though the deed is done you can still expect (for the next 2 years a Remediation Notice (similar to one above)/max £5k fine/cross compliance SFP breech penalty.)
Sorry guys I wanted to rejuvenate this thread as my Remediation Appeal is currently "hotting up."
Surely once the agreement lapses you may apply fertiliser? Once lapsed it is sfa to do with them as the agreement was for 10 yrs not forever. If the rules have changed during the duration of the agreement it is not binding unless you have been offered a break.
 
Given this a bit more thought and I think that in light of the new farm payments scheme whereby those affected with later starting ELS schemes have been given the option to change you would have a very good case to challenge any mid term ammendments that predudice your interests if you have not been offered a break.
Others may think it better to not raise the question and just do as the odds against getting caught must be small.
I feel I must add that all my previous dealings with EN have been very good and much sense talked and shown.
 

spin cycle

Member
Location
north norfolk
defra chap on a farm walk said there shouldn't be a problem ploughing up pp....presumably because the uk has so much that couldn't physically be ploughed that a 5% reduction is unlikely to be exceeded? if you are in stewardship though you're (well at least i'm) not allowed to plough up pp.

from ne view they may regard the payments under stewardship for reversion as an 'investment' in that land and so having paid for that transition from arable to pp may not be keen to see it ploughed up after the scheme finishes....my own speculation though:meh:

there is derogation for small areas though i think? is it 2ha you can plough without eia?
 
defra chap on a farm walk said there shouldn't be a problem ploughing up pp....presumably because the uk has so much that couldn't physically be ploughed that a 5% reduction is unlikely to be exceeded? if you are in stewardship though you're (well at least i'm) not allowed to plough up pp.

from ne view they may regard the payments under stewardship for reversion as an 'investment' in that land and so having paid for that transition from arable to pp may not be keen to see it ploughed up after the scheme finishes....my own speculation though:meh:

there is derogation for small areas though i think? is it 2ha you can plough without eia?
The second paragraph is the relevant one to the OP and my ongoing problems. If you put some farmland into a fixed term agreement it appears under the EIA legislation as currently being enforced against EIA1348 that the fixed term agreement is now forever and without any ongoing agreement or payment necessary. BEWARE as the purse strings tighten Natural England will seek to replace the carrot with a stick.
 
Anyone going into HLS now should take careful heed of the printed warning that you may not be able to "get your land back in the future."
The agreement payment period may well act as a means to removing your right to farm as you see fit at agreement conclusion.
At end of agreement they offer another at much reduced level and invoke EIA legislation then ........ "We don't say you cant plough it....... but you cant plough it until we say you can plough it!
 

Green oak

Member
Location
Essex
This interests me. I had 3.50ha in countryside stewardship which finished two years ago after ten years. I was just told I can't do nothing with it and the best thing would be fence it in and rent it out for horses is this the case??? Father joined css when wheat was £60T and just left the meadow to naturally regenerate. It was cropped before that. I'm not saying I would put a crop in but maybe some wild bird mix or something visually nice as its near the road. But this would need a fresh start eg prepare a seed bed by ploughing. A bit of a grey area to me!!
 

Badshot

Member
Location
Kent
This interests me. I had 3.50ha in countryside stewardship which finished two years ago after ten years. I was just told I can't do nothing with it and the best thing would be fence it in and rent it out for horses is this the case??? Father joined css when wheat was £60T and just left the meadow to naturally regenerate. It was cropped before that. I'm not saying I would put a crop in but maybe some wild bird mix or something visually nice as its near the road. But this would need a fresh start eg prepare a seed bed by ploughing. A bit of a grey area to me!!
It's verging on criminal really, wonder what trading standards would make of it? Moving the goal posts partway through an agreement sucks bad enough, but saying that by being in a certain management scheme will mean you have to abide by the rules after it finishes is just plain wrong.
 

Green oak

Member
Location
Essex
so they will not let me touch ccs ground but when my ELS finishes in December I can plough up 17 acres of field corners and 4 metre margins which have been in ten years. Is that the case....
 

Badshot

Member
Location
Kent
so they will not let me touch ccs ground but when my ELS finishes in December I can plough up 17 acres of field corners and 4 metre margins which have been in ten years. Is that the case....
Mine are going, have no intention of asking permission either, roundup, followed by another dose in spring.
 

turbo

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
lincs
As soon as my pp is out of els it will be sprayed to take out the weeds and slot seed some rye grass into it then next year it will only contain rye grass and they arn't bothered about that if they come to inspect pp.
 
stop press...... High Court Judicial Review Permission Hearing....Bristol Civil Justice Centre, 2 Redcliff Street. BS1 6GR ... Thurs. 15/10/2015.
case ref. CO2701/2015 COOPER verses (1.) THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR ENVIRONMENT FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS
(2.) NATURAL ENGLAND
 

Badshot

Member
Location
Kent
stop press...... High Court Judicial Review Permission Hearing....Bristol Civil Justice Centre, 2 Redcliff Street. BS1 6GR ... Thurs. 15/10/2015.
case ref. CO2701/2015 COOPER verses (1.) THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR ENVIRONMENT FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS
(2.) NATURAL ENGLAND
I hope the barstewards get their wings clipped. Hard.
 

Billhook

Member
Any outcome yet? This whole issue seems to be in dire need of a "class action" challenge, perhaps backed by the NFU or CAL as it is blighting land. If it hadn't been heard yet then good luck.
I too would be very interested to hear the outcome.
Where is the limit to these mid term changes to a legal agreement? In my case the rules came in mid way and if I had known that these rules had been in place I would not have signed the agreement.
What happens if they introduce a rule half way through a contract that says you must hand over your whole farm to the government after the end of the agreement, without asking you to sign a new agreement?
This surely makes a nonsense of any agreement or contract and a nonsense of British law.
 

Meadow Brown

Member
Location
Yorkshire
This is from the latest BPS 2016 scheme rules and relates to temporary grassland going back to temporary grassland after an Agri-environment scheme ends.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/505559/BPS_2016_scheme_rules_FINAL__DS_.pdf

Land in agri-environment schemes


Arable land that is taken out of production to be used for one of the following agri-environment options is still treated as ‘arable’ land for BPS. It will remain 'arable' land while it's being used for the agri-environment option and will not become permanent grassland.

The time land is used for one of these options doesn’t count when working out whether temporary grassland becomes permanent grassland after 5 years


Example


A farmer has a land parcel which was temporary grassland for 3 years. The parcel was then

taken out of production under an agri-environment scheme option for 5 years (see tables

below).

Once the land comes out of the option, it will still be classed as temporary grassland (which is

arable land). At the next BPS deadline after the land comes out of the option it will be counted

as the fourth year of grassland (not the ninth).

Temporary grassland 2008 (Year 1)

Temporary grassland 2009 (Year 2)

Temporary grassland 2010 (Year 3)

Agri enviro scheme 2011

Agri enviro scheme 2012

Agri enviro scheme 2013

Agri enviro scheme 2014

Agri enviro scheme 2015

Temporary grassland 2016 (Year 4)


Environmental Stewardship Option

Description

EC24, HC24, OC24 or OHC24

Hedgerow tree buffer strips on cultivated/rotational land

EE1, HE1, OE1 or OHE1

2 metre buffer strips on cultivated/rotational land

EE2, HE2, OE2 or OHE2

4 metre buffer strips on cultivated/rotational land

EE3, HE3, OE3 or OHE3

6 metre buffer strips on cultivated/rotational land

EE8, HE8, OE8 or OHE8

Buffering in-field ponds on arable/rotational land

EE9, HE9, OE9 or OHE9

6 metre buffer strips on cultivated/rotational land next to watercourse

EF1, HF1, OF1 or OHF1

Management of field corners

EF4, HF4, OF4 or OHF4

Nectar flower mixture

EF5 or HF5

Pollen and nectar flower mixture on set-aside land. The land must have been set-aside at the time the applicant entered into the agreement.

EF7, HF7, OF7 or OHF7

Beetle banks

EG3, HG3, OG3 or OHG3

Nectar flower mixtures in grassland areas

EJ5, HJ5, OJ5 or OHJ5

In-field grass areas to prevent erosion and run-off

EJ9, HJ9, OJ9 or OHJ9

12 metre buffer strips for watercourses on cultivated/rotational land.

HE10

Floristically enhanced grass margin

EC1, HC1, OC1 and OHC1

Protection of infield trees on arable/rotational land

HC5

Ancient trees in arable fields
 

chipchap

Member
Location
South Shropshire
IT is quite clear, arable land at the beginning is arable land at the end of the agreement.
My HLS ends at the end of October, and NE are keen for me to have a new agreement from January 2017. I will be reading the small print VERY carefully before I sign on the dotted line.
 

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Introduction of Agriculture Bill, the launch of the Joint Unit on Waste Crime and calls for greater protection for our ocean

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Introduction of Agriculture Bill, the launch of the Joint Unit on Waste Crime and calls for greater protection for our ocean

Written by Defra Press Office

Agriculture Bill to boost environment and food production

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