Poacher??

[Salt'n'Pepper]

Whilst driving over my farm today I met a man with a hawk,when asked if he had permission to use the hawk on the land,he responded that he was merely going for a walk with his hawk to get it used to the countryside.
Does he have a right to roam in Scotland,with a hawk? Or does he require permission to take a hawk onto someone's land?
Just wondering for future reference
TIA

 

[Highland Mule]

@Dry Rot would likely know.

 

[ImLost]

If he was genuinely just manning it, then fair enough. Do you know what species of hawk it was? This time of falconers will be manning and training late clutch Harris hawks and some similar species.

 

[Salt'n'Pepper]

May have been a Harris hawk or a buzzard,not entirely sure.Was caught off guard and didn't really study the bird as much as I studied the fellow holding it!!
Do you need permission or would merely be courtesy to man a bird on someone else's land ?

 

[ImLost]

May have been a Harris hawk or a buzzard,not entirely sure.Was caught off guard and didn't really study the bird as much as I studied the fellow holding it!!
Do you need permission or would merely be courtesy to man a bird on someone else's land ?

I used to fly BOP and would regularly walk around the local footpaths and bridleways with no intention of flying the bird. You come across so many different distractions and scenarios, it helps build the birds resilience no end. I wouldn't worry if he's just manning it, as long as he's on a designated footpath or what have you.

 

[Salt'n'Pepper]

Was on a farm track that goes from the farm to a small wood,he looked as if he come from the wood and hadn't passed through the farm yard to get to it.
Looked rather suspicious !!

 

[Mickeydredd]

Its kindof a grey area but to be honest he should not be walking on any private land with the hawk that he doesn't have the owner's permission to fly/hunt the hawk. If he was just manning it then he should do it on public land or land where he has permission so that there can be no reasonable excuse for being in any way suspected of poaching.
If he caused it to fly free at any point then that is poaching, just as when firing a gun on land where you do not have the landowner's permission, although obviously there is no offence of armed trespass.

 

[dudders]

My view: if he has the right to be there, because Right to Roam applies or it's a RoW, then it doesn't matter what he's carrying - buzzard on a leash or gun in a slip. But as soon as he releases the bird, he can reasonably be assumed to be hunting, which means poaching if he has no permission.

But what can you do about it? Not a lot, it would seem, other than to let him know you've taken his picture and the local chief inspector is a mate of yours.

 

[Dry Rot]

I think the owner of the sporting rights would have to prove the hawk owner had the intention of pursuing quarry. He may well have been manning it, or more likely posing as a lot like to have a hawk on their fist to attact attention -- "Look at my bird, look at me".

Yes, in Scotland, we have the right to (responsibly) roam and doing so with a hawk on your fist, in law, is probably no different to going for a walk with a dog on lead. Nothing to get excited about. Just write him off as a benign eccentric!

 

[Bogweevil]

Blimey, clearly you lot don't grow OSR or other brassicas - would beg the falconer on my knees to come and get his hawk slay pigeons here.

 

[Salt'n'Pepper]

He certainly wasn't out posing-miles from anywhere-wouldn't mind him dealing with the pigeons ,but we also have the odd deer, and wouldn't like him to get bigger ideas!!
Purely out of courtesy,I would have at least have liked an introduction and an opportunity to object to any potential activities,I may have had racing pidgeons,for all he knows.

 

[Mickeydredd]

Blimey, clearly you lot don't grow OSR or other brassicas - would beg the falconer on my knees to come and get his hawk slay pigeons here.

Not many hawks will take pigeon, scare them at most. Plenty on here will offer to shoot them though, me included lol

 

[ImLost]

He certainly wasn't out posing-miles from anywhere-wouldn't mind him dealing with the pigeons ,but we also have the odd deer, and wouldn't like him to get bigger ideas!!
Purely out of courtesy,I would have at least have liked an introduction and an opportunity to object to any potential activities,I may have had racing pidgeons,for all he knows.

They won't take deer, unless it's a large Eagle, in which case I think you would have noticed.

 

[Bogweevil]

He certainly wasn't out posing-miles from anywhere-wouldn't mind him dealing with the pigeons ,but we also have the odd deer, and wouldn't like him to get bigger ideas!!
Purely out of courtesy,I would have at least have liked an introduction and an opportunity to object to any potential activities,I may have had racing pidgeons,for all he knows.

Hmmm, perhaps he needs a condor for the deer...

 

[Bogweevil]

Not many hawks will take pigeon, scare them at most. Plenty on here will offer to shoot them though, me included lol

Oh no, shoot hawks, that is not a good idea - I am pretty sure hawks like pigeons or those pigeon fanciers would not get so arsy about raptors.

 

[Bogweevil]

They won't take deer, unless it's a large Eagle, in which case I think you would have noticed.

Oh I don't know the larger hawks could handle a young muntjac I expect

 

[Mickeydredd]

Oh no, shoot hawks, that is not a good idea - I am pretty sure hawks like pigeons or those pigeon fanciers would not get so arsy about raptors.

Falconers do not want their falcons to chase peregrines and do everything in their power to persuade them they are not tasty quarry. wild ones however, do love pigeon, and that is why pigeon-fanciers hate pigeons. There is a big difference between wild and falconry-trained birds.

I've been hunting roe and fox with goldies, both here and on the continent.

 

[Bogweevil]

Falconers do not want their falcons to chase peregrines and do everything in their power to persuade them they are not tasty quarry. wild ones however, do love pigeon, and that is why pigeon-fanciers hate pigeons. There is a big difference between wild and falconry-trained birds.

I've been hunting roe and fox with goldies, both here and on the continent.

Intriguing, why don't falconers want their hawks to catch pigeons?

 

[ImLost]

Intriguing, why don't falconers want their hawks to catch pigeons?

Because pigeons are extremely fast, agile and have incredible stamina. Once a hawk or moreover a falcon gives chase, the chances are it will be a very long flight, which if resulting in a kill, will mean the falconer on arrival at the scene of the kill will likely be too late and find a very fat bird that won't be able to be flown for a while!
If the bird of prey fails to catch the pigeon the chances are they will have long since lost the falconer and vice versa, sometimes resulting in hours or even days of attempting to track and lure the bird back.

 

[Dry Rot]

Because pigeons are extremely fast, agile and have incredible stamina. Once a hawk or moreover a falcon gives chase, the chances are it will be a very long flight, which if resulting in a kill, will mean the falconer on arrival at the scene of the kill will likely be too late and find a very fat bird that won't be able to be flown for a while!
If the bird of prey fails to catch the pigeon the chances are they will have long since lost the falconer and vice versa, sometimes resulting in hours or even days of attempting to track and lure the bird back.

An experienced falcon will soon learn that it needs to be waiting on at a good height and precisely positioned to have a chance at a pigeon and if the falconer knows his stuff he will have easier quarry (game) located for his falcon to fly. They soon learn the difference.

I thought modern falconers had aviary bred hawks and telemetry (not to mention GPS) these days? Must be hard work losing them! When I started, it was all wild taken birds and a pair of brass bells from Muhammed Dhin in Lahore, Pakistan!