Power Cuts

[maen]

We have had three hours of power cuts from 03.00. Off then off then on then off. Computers rebooted then rebooted again. Mayhem. And with Gas heating being outlawed and electric cars it will only get worse. WPD need to make massive investment in their infrastructure to keep if working. Transformer maintenance simple when it blows up replace it. Oh and P##s your customers off in the process. OH, they are not your customers so who cares a ###K.

 

[renewablejohn]

We have had three hours of power cuts from 03.00. Off then off then on then off. Computers rebooted then rebooted again. Mayhem. And with Gas heating being outlawed and electric cars it will only get worse. WPD need to make massive investment in their infrastructure to keep if working. Transformer maintenance simple when it blows up replace it. Oh and P##s your customers off in the process. OH, they are not your customers so who cares a ###K.

Certainly not anything to do with lack of capacity with so much wind the gas turbines have only been ticking over today. More likely to be trees blowing down in the high winds taking down the power lines.

 

[TechWise]

It's just one of these things. The network is more reliable now than it's ever been. 10 years ago, in weather like this we'd have been looking the candles out because the power would almost certainly go out. Nowadays, I couldn't even tell you where the candles are.
When I worked in the industry, we were using data to predict transformer health and replacing accordingly. It's a surprisingly exact science, to the point that it was exceedingly rare for a transformer to fail. Most of the problems were coming from line and cable faults.

 

[deleted user 837354]

It's just one of these things. The network is more reliable now than it's ever been. 10 years ago, in weather like this we'd have been looking the candles out because the power would almost certainly go out. Nowadays, I couldn't even tell you where the candles are.
When I worked in the industry, we were using data to predict transformer health and replacing accordingly. It's a surprisingly exact science, to the point that it was exceedingly rare for a transformer to fail. Most of the problems were coming from line and cable faults.

Can you tell me, what is actually inside a transformer than can 'fail'? It's a largely solid piece of equipment with no moving parts and it's full of cooling oil, is it not?

 

[Highland Mule]

Can you tell me, what is actually inside a transformer than can 'fail'? It's a largely solid piece of equipment with no moving parts and it's full of cooling oil, is it not?

Amongst other things, the oil can degrade and in some cases generate hydrogen which can then go bang. I know someone who was in the turbine hall at Hartlepool when one popped and apparently the exposion was something else.

 

[Danllan]

Amongst other things, the oil can degrade and in some cases generate hydrogen which can then go bang. I know someone who was in the turbine hall at Hartlepool when one popped and apparently the exposion was something else.

I've a friend who was right opposite one that went off, he was the other side of the fence in a barracks - times being what they were, everyone's first thought was: 'We're under attack!'

Probably not as big as the one you mention, but it was certainly noticeable!

 

[Bald Rick]

Surely if you are reliant on an uninterrupted power supply, you would have a stand by generator with a change over switch either auto or manual?

Certainly gives peace of mind & doesn't half p!ss off the neighbours when your sheds are lit like a Christmas tree whilst they are in total darkness

 

[Davey]

Things have certainly improved round here. 10 years ago I'd have 4 or 5 power cuts a year which would normally last 12 hours plus.

Now it's probably only once a year for an hour or two.

 

[Exfarmer]

We have had three hours of power cuts from 03.00. Off then off then on then off. Computers rebooted then rebooted again. Mayhem. And with Gas heating being outlawed and electric cars it will only get worse. WPD need to make massive investment in their infrastructure to keep if working. Transformer maintenance simple when it blows up replace it. Oh and P##s your customers off in the process. OH, they are not your customers so who cares a ###K.

There is little or nothing can be done about intermittent power cuts caused by any number of incidents, trees fallling on power, lines, vehicles hitting poles etc.
However the grid capacity is a completely different issue , which is being completely ignored by the industry and politicians. There is no question we need a huge increase in capacity to shift the power where we want it, when we want it. There are large numbers of heads buried in the sand, ignoring the issue as they know they will instantly come up against a coalition of Nimby’s , anti climate change activists, general greens Natural England etc, terrified of the new power lines and Nuclear power stations we need to ensure we have extra estimated 34 Gw capacity needed, nearly doubling present peaks.

 

[Steevo]

There is little or nothing can be done about intermittent power cuts caused by any number of incidents, trees fallling on power, lines, vehicles hitting poles etc.
However the grid capacity is a completely different issue , which is being completely ignored by the industry and politicians. There is no question we need a huge increase in capacity to shift the power where we want it, when we want it. There are large numbers of heads buried in the sand, ignoring the issue as they know they will instantly come up against a coalition of Nimby’s , anti climate change activists, general greens Natural England etc, terrified of the new power lines and Nuclear power stations we need to ensure we have extra estimated 34 Gw capacity needed, nearly doubling present peaks.

What do you see the main factor behind increased peak power consumption being please?

 

[steveR]

Things have certainly improved round here. 10 years ago I'd have 4 or 5 power cuts a year which would normally last 12 hours plus.

Now it's probably only once a year for an hour or two.

Same here, the diesel gennie has been out so infrequently in the past couple or 3 years, I'd struggle to remember where it is... Did not even service it at the start of winter which is unusual.

Built two houses, both have a change over switch for gennies. 25 years ago, they were a must have.... Now, maybe not so much. Infrastructure has improved a lot, hell WPD are even cutting trees again!!

 

[steveR]

Surely if you are reliant on an uninterrupted power supply, you would have a stand by generator with a change over switch either auto or manual?

Certainly gives peace of mind & doesn't half p!ss off the neighbours when your sheds are lit like a Christmas tree whilst they are in total darkness

And a UPS for the computer. I always think that it's one of the real benefits of a laptop

The small battery standby jobs are peanuts these days really, if the PC's are mission critical.

 

[Highland Mule]

What do you see the main factor behind increased peak power consumption being please?

Population growth, I imagine. And device usage for things like the mobile computers we carry around in our pockets. But I’m sure that with the move to microwave ovens, LED lights and flat screens that electricity consumption per capita has actually dropped. Loss of heavy industry will be a factor in that too.

 

[TechWise]

Can you tell me, what is actually inside a transformer than can 'fail'? It's a largely solid piece of equipment with no moving parts and it's full of cooling oil, is it not?

The main thing that can go wrong is insulation breakdown. The high voltages degrade the insulation over time until it potentially breaks down somewhere causing a short. The oil is there for cooling but it's also part of the insulation. In the early stages of breakdown, the oil becomes contaminated with gases coming off of the insulation. Common practice is to take a test tube of oil from your transformers and send it to a lab to do a Dissolved Gas Analysis.
There's been moves recently to permanently install oil analysers on the big transformers to run a DGA every day or so. The existing tech needs a gas cylinder next to it. I think it's basically a Mass Spectrometer and it needs lots of argon for some reason or another. The cost of gas was proving prohibitive for most small and/or relatively new transformers.
The other big technology is detecting arcing through its radio wave emissions. There was a large transmission transformer recently commissioned that we had an array of antenna set up around to try and triangulate an arcing problem to an exact point in the windings. The transformer manufacturer was insisting that nothing like that could get through their quality control and tried to discredit the monitoring tech. My boss at the time was inclined to agree. The guy pioneering the monitoring tech in the company placed great faith in it though.
The other thing that can go is the mechanical tap changer. It is very much a moving part (same idea as the tap setting on an old stick welder). They're built with motors and gears and all sorts of linkages so all the usual problems apply there.
Some transformers also just leak. The gaskets fail eventually and let the oil out. Youd be surprised at the number of transformers that companies will try to squeeze another 6 months out of by surrounding with spill kits and topping the oil every other day. Problem is, if there's a major burst, all the oil leaks out so you've got no insulation and nothing but a few flammable vapours. Next stop - kaboom.
There was a site I attended where that had happened. The explosion levelled the brick substation and threw the wooden doors clean out through the palisade fencing leaving a square hole like something out a cartoon. Couple of the guys I worked with were pretty shaken up because they'd been there the day before measuring up for the new transformer!

 

[Exfarmer]

What do you see the main factor behind increased peak power consumption being please?

there is no question, the move to Electric Cars and ASHP. It is widely acknowledged there will be a need for another 34 Gw of generation.
many in the industry believe that increased wind capacity will sort this
currently peak usage is normally 5-7 in the evening, now what is going to get plugged in when everyone comes back from work at this time, before they plug the kettle in?

 

[TheTallGuy]

What do you see the main factor behind increased peak power consumption being please?

Electric vehicles & no new gas boilers after 2025 will start upping consumption.

 

[milkloss]

there is no question, the move to Electric Cars and ASHP. It is widely acknowledged there will be a need for another 34 Gw of generation.
many in the industry believe that increased wind capacity will sort this
currently peak usage is normally 5-7 in the evening, now what is going to get plugged in when everyone comes back from work at this time, before they plug the kettle in?

This will surely be managed by smart charging, even my iPhone does it.

 

[TheTallGuy]

This will surely be managed by smart charging, even my iPhone does it.

Even with smart charging, the sheer
volume of vehicles will require significant extra capacity. Even just providing juice to power the smart chargers will have an impact, even if they're not actively charging. It's the same thing with "smart meters" - standalone they use more energy than traditional meters, then add in the energy used by the display that most folk don't look at after the first week....

 

[milkloss]

Even with smart charging, the sheer
volume of vehicles will require significant extra capacity. Even just providing juice to power the smart chargers will have an impact, even if they're not actively charging. It's the same thing with "smart meters" - standalone they use more energy than traditional meters, then add in the energy used by the display that most folk don't look at after the first week....

makes idea of banning internal combustion's engines by 2030 laughable really.

 

[Davey]

Same here, the diesel gennie has been out so infrequently, I'd struggle to remember where it is... Did not even service it at the start of winter which is unusual.

Built two houses, both have a change over switch for gennies. 25 years ago, they were a must have.... Now, maybe not so much. Infrastructure has improved a lot, hell WPD are even cutting trees again!!

Don't get too carried away!

Last 3 years I've given permission for them to come clear trees near powerlines, sure enough every year the same trees still need cutting

About 5 years ago they came to survey the area saying they needed to replace the wires, I'm told they found about 1 in 5 poles no longer structurally sound and a panic button got pressed somewhere. Never seen so many people / equipment arrive so fast and most of the poles for a couple of miles got replaced, never did get round to doing the wire though.