Price of breeding stock?

[glasshouse]

just wonder how youngsters ever start off in farming, off their own backs
the amounts of money required is mind boggling.

Simple, dont buy at the top.
I bought cast blackies for £3 and good gf gimmers for £35
That was 98 in the great bse catastrophy.
Exacerbated by a run of wet years.
Cows with calves were £300
Lots of farmers went bust , and lots got a start.

 

[Bob the beef]

just wonder how youngsters ever start off in farming, off their own backs
the amounts of money required is mind boggling.

Go to dispersal sales and buy the old cows, either in calve or with calves at foot. At least then you have some calves to trade relatively quickly and a half decent chance of a good breeding cow, presuming that the seller kept them to an age because they were worth it.

 

[Hilly]

I dont know how anyone makes sucklers pay buying in replacements ££ ouch !

 

[Hilly]

100 cows . 20 replacements @ 2.5 k , 50k , sell 20 culls , 20k means they have cost you 30k , 300£ per calf ,,, stuff that… realitlyis might not need 20 but also wont get 100 calves from 100cows either …. And at 2.5k plus never get your money back if sell up …

 

[som farmer]

100 cows . 20 replacements @ 2.5 k , 50k , sell 20 culls , 20k means they have cost you 30k , 300£ per calf ,,, stuff that… realitlyis might not need 20 but also wont get 100 calves from 100cows either …. And at 2.5k plus never get your money back if sell up …

brand new shed, dogs ballcocks, buying cows at £3100 and £2500, they must have a calculator that works differently to mine.

not saying sucklers cannot be profitable, as some do well. But my calculation is quite simple, cost of keeping the cow for a year, minus the value of her calf, when sold. On a stand alone enterprise, everything else is funded out of that figure, plus a few £ subs.

an argument l have been told, is that the retirement sale of your kit and cattle, funds the retirement, l can see a little merit in that, but not a lot.

the current high prices for cattle, and sheep, probably alter the calculations a bit, but enough ? Mind you, never in my wildest dreams, did l think lamb/hogs could go over £200, topped at our local mkt, £230.50 this week

the whole market for cattle and sheep, are running at levels one would never have thought possible, 3/4 years back, but will it continue ?

Go to dispersal sales and buy the old cows, either in calve or with calves at foot. At least then you have some calves to trade relatively quickly and a half decent chance of a good breeding cow, presuming that the seller kept them to an age because they were worth it.

best way to do it, when l kept a few, bought the elderly, calf when sold, left you the cow for £0
watched some biggish i/c beefers go through the ring, av about £1200, all went to a fattening farm. He might, or not, calve them down, but they wouldn't have another calf.

both the UK dairy herd, and the suckler herd, is shrinking year on year, every contraction will leave less calves available. So perhaps the economics will change.

 

[ringi]

100 cows . 20 replacements @ 2.5 k , 50k , sell 20 culls , 20k means they have cost you 30k , 300£ per calf ,,, stuff that… realitlyis might not need 20 but also wont get 100 calves from 100cows either …. And at 2.5k plus never get your money back if sell up …

not saying sucklers cannot be profitable, as some do well. But my calculation is quite simple, cost of keeping the cow for a year, minus the value of her calf, when sold. On a stand alone enterprise, everything else is funded out of that figure, plus a few £ subs

Given it will forever be competing with dairy calves (that are mostly "forced sales" as the dairies are using every last bit of space to increase milk production), I question if sucklers makes sence unless selling true premium rare breed organic meat (ideally direct to commuter).

If it is "hill land" that will not get quick enough results with dairy calves then I can see a herd of native rare breed working, with keeping the best calfs as replacement. I can't see them working unless mostly possible to overwinter outside as otherwise the import costs are high, with high import costs might as well have dairy calves.

If doing cross bred sucklers why not start with dairy calves and invest the many in using the best AI bull, selling any that don't take.

 

[som farmer]

Given it will forever be competing with dairy calfs (that are mostly "forced sales" as the dairies are using every last bit of space to increase milk production), I question if sucklers makes sence unless selling true premium rare breed organic meat (ideally direct to commuter).

If it is "hill land" that will not get quick enough results with dairy calfs then I can see a herd of native rare breed working with keeping the best calfs as replacement. I can't see them working unless mostly possible to overwinter outside as otherwise the import costs are high, with high import costs might as well have dairy calfs.

the dairy and beef breeding herds are shrinking yr on yr.

dairy farmers will very soon be faced with a hard choice, with the EA seemingly determined to force adherence to the new slurry regs. The options are simple, invest a lot of money, or stop milking. We are told av cost of £250,000, to enable slurry storage, if yours are either not present, or deemed inadequate.

if you are a tenant, either you, or l/lord have to pay up, to continue milking, not that much of a choice, especially if shorter FBT.

so, come the autumn/winter, one has a choice, pay, or stop, not much of one, is it ?

could be a lot of herds coming onto the mkt, when the regs bite in.

and slurry storage is not as simple as digging a hole, for a lagoon. EA require you to build/dig/construct, to their specifications, or you have wasted your money. You also have to get planning permission, and some councils are turning applications down. Even if you want to enlarge your storage, has to be EA approved, and the whole thing has to meet their standard.

as we know, in the eyes of Defra, guv etc, farming should be environmental, not production.

stupid policy, but that's as it is. Taking up SFI schemes, is only going to reduce production further. For farmers that can muddle through this short term madness, l would suggest a lot better times ahead.

but young stock for beef, is going to be short.

 

[ringi]

Taking up SFI schemes, is only going to reduce production further.

Not convinced as having some livestock on arable farms, (even a finishing unit or dairy on a very large arable farm) gives nice economics when combined with SFI payments to take fields out of arable for a few year.

Slurry storage is costly, but having 4 times the store capacity will not have much more then double the capital cost. Hence I can see the size of new dairy farmers and finishing units being larger then is traditional.

But how long until regulations about needing to remove gasses from the air in housing units?

 

[som farmer]

Not convinced as having some livestock on arable farms, (even a finishing unit or dairy on a very large arable farm) gives nice economics when combined with SFI payments to take fields out of arable for a few year.

Slurry storage is costly, but having 4 times the store capacity will not have much more then double the capital cost. Hence I can see the size of new dairy farmers and finishing units being larger then is traditional.

But how long until regulations about needing to remove gasses from the air in housing units?

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trouble is, we don't know what the daft buggers will dream up next.

fully agree livestock returning to arable farms, would be a positive move. If arable boys are looking to SFI, SAM 3, etc, cutting and ensiling it, lends itself to cattle. Even the fertility building legume mix, l am told the protein levels are still good, having been untouched all season
then the straw plus dung, is a better option than chopping straw.

but all that is going to do, is push up demand for cattle, and that supply of cattle, is shrinking.

and l really don't see that altering.

to be honest, l am gambling on the cattle prices increasing, we are going to rear a lot more calves, lets just hope l am right !!!!! You never know, sucklers might look attractive again

ps, know a chap that's got a load of AAX hfr calves .........................................................

 

[Frank-the-Wool]

Valuation of stock should be the lower of cost or net realisable value (cull price).
As long as you use the same basis every year then accountants are happy.

However with the new tax changes and altering our end of year to March rather than May makes it is all more fictional as you shouldn't count your chickens (lambs) before they hatch. Ewes might not have any lambs and so cull price of lean ewes around £65.00.

If you need to borrow money though you might need a higher valuation.

 

[ringi]

The increase in cash accounting limits gives another option.

I believe sole traders will soon be practically forced to have all have 31st March or 6th Apr year ends. Maybe enough to justify using a limited company so the year end can be at a senible time of year for livestock. (The change to rules of soletrader year ends do remove many papes of regulations that often resulted in errors.)

 

[glasshouse]

just wonder how youngsters ever start off in farming, off their own backs
the amounts of money required is mind boggling.

The biggest obstacle to young farmers is acreage subsidy getting paid to estates and past it farmers thereby blanking off the traditional entry point for young farmers.
Dreadful years like this in the past would have resulted in lots going bust or giving up , leading to opportunities. Not any more.