Price of suckler replacements

[johnspeehs]

So how much do you think rearing your own replacement will cost then allowing for calving at say 30 months?

 

[Northeastfarmer]

So how much do you think rearing your own replacement will cost then allowing for calving at say 30 months?

I guess you should really value them at what it would cost you to buy an equivalent as that's what you could sell them for....same as if it was wheat or barley

 

[Henarar]

I'm not sure AI is the answer.

nor am I, but time will tell
I would rather run two different breeds of bull but I don't think we have enough cows to warrant that and do our bit of ped breeding

I wasn't suggesting selling the remaining heifers for breeding, they can just be fattened.
You'll easily get easily fleshed R grade heifers and U grade steers from a type that will breed sound, functional suckler cows.

That's why I haven't really experienced much advantage of a purely terminal sire in a situation were reasonable quality (green) grazing allows a more lowland type of cow to be kept.

this is where we differ, I do see more money in cross breeding to a terminal sire, I don't particularly care how they grade I want what makes most money in market and the most profit on the way, if the folk buying them change what they want I will have to change what I produce
But I think that cross breeding for beef production is the best way to go, no one breed is as good
You may not have been suggesting that heifers are sold for breeding but its what you do and as I have said they are not all wanted
anyway we will have to agree to disagree as this is off topic

they would have to have been bloody good for that money

 

[Henarar]

I could've written that and this is what I do - with the addition of use of AI bulls here and there to, hopefully, improve the genetic merit of some of the replacements.
And the cost (not price) of a replacement? 2 x the annual cost of keeping a cow, if it calves at 2.

is that taking in to account that if you rear your own replacements rather than selling store you can't keep as many cows given the same land/feed/buildings, if you take a replacement is say 4 months from calving

 

[M-J-G]

nor am I, but time will tell
I would rather run two different breeds of bull but I don't think we have enough cows to warrant that and do our bit of ped breeding

this is where we differ, I do see more money in cross breeding to a terminal sire, I don't particularly care how they grade I want what makes most money in market and the most profit on the way, if the folk buying them change what they want I will have to change what I produce
But I think that cross breeding for beef production is the best way to go, no one breed is as good
You may not have been suggesting that heifers are sold for breeding but its what you do and as I have said they are not all wanted
anyway we will have to agree to disagree as this is off topic

they would have to have been bloody good for that money

My point was about using purely terminal types.
Do you count the Blue as a purely terminal, or were you referring to experience with another Terminal?

 

[pine_guy]

Who wants to look at R grade cattle in the shed...

Be a step up from my B&Ws...... Which will leave the most profit?

 

[Northeastfarmer]

Be a step up from my B&Ws...... Which will leave the most profit?

I'd imagine the hatracks

 

[Henarar]

My point was about using purely terminal types.
Do you count the Blue as a purely terminal, or were you referring to experience with another Terminal?

I use blue as terminal just as you use sim
though some of our heifers do get bought for breeding but don't forget they are cross breeds, we have yet to sell a pure bred female since we sold our last BF

 

[M-J-G]

Who wants to look at R grade cattle in the shed...

I don't mind

You have also just managed to insult vast the majority of proud cattle owners in the world.

 

[Henarar]

I use blue as terminal just as you use sim
though some of our heifers do get bought for breeding but don't forget they are cross breeds, we have yet to sell a pure bred female since we sold our last BF

Yes blues would be used much more terminal than say sim but as I have told you before [or tried to] don't right of their maternal abilities, which from breeding our own ped blues has suppressed me a bit
they are good mothers, some milk very well, quiet and seem to last [the oldest cow we have is a ped blue]

 

[Henarar]

I don't mind

You have also just managed to insult vast the majority of proud cattle owners in the world.

who cares what grade it is, its how much profit it leaves that counts

 

[Northeastfarmer]

I don't mind

You have also just managed to insult vast the majority of proud cattle owners in the world.

Ah Martin I wondered when you'd be along to quote me

 

[M-J-G]

Ah Martin I wondered when you'd be along to quote me

I hadn't focused on it until @pine_guy quoted it.

Personally, I enjoy and find it interesting to look at pretty much all cattle, to be fair that doesn't mean I'd like to own them all.

 

[Northeastfarmer]

I hadn't focused on it until @pine_guy quoted it.

Personally, I enjoy and find it interesting to look at pretty much all cattle, to be fair that doesn't mean I'd like to own them all.

Jolly good enjoy your day

 

[choochter]

So how much do you think rearing your own replacement will cost then allowing for calving at say 30 months?

I work it out thus:
the year the heifer is born you don't sell her so don't get an income off that cow = annual cost of keeping the cow
the next year, the heifer's freeloading (but you put her in calf when she is 15-18 mths) = annual cost of keeping a cow
the next year she has a calf at foot which you can sell therefore from the age of 2 she is paying her way

if she calves for the first time at 30mths = add half the annual cost of keeping a cow

feel free to pick holes in this philosophy, I dont mind

I guess you should really value them at what it would cost you to buy an equivalent as that's what you could sell them for....same as if it was wheat or barley

Actually agree with this but...How do you quantify the cost to the herd of a brought in heifer also bringing with her bacteria or virus to which your herd has no immunity? And some bug runs through your calves? Its not just the main 4 diseases, its all the others too. Also a home bred heifer is a known quantity - you know what her sire and dam did, what her sisters did.

It's a question of how much risk you are prepared to bear, I suppose.

is that taking in to account that if you rear your own replacements rather than selling store you can't keep as many cows given the same land/feed/buildings, if you take a replacement is say 4 months from calving

see reply above, but in my wee but expanding herd of 25 cows there's usually 1 or 2 culls per year and the last 3 averaged £1100 (each)

 

[Henarar]

see reply above, but in my wee but expanding herd of 25 cows there's usually 1 or 2 culls per year and the last 3 averaged £1100 (each)

I would say for every two heifers you rear rather than selling store at ten months and buying in in calf heifers is one less cow you can keep so one less calf per year you have to sell
you can't have your cake and eat it

 

[CharcoalWally]

The explanation is very simple, all one has to do is take a step back.
Go anywhere in the world and see how many heavily muscled (fancy) cows there are. Apart from Subsidised Europe, there will be proportionally very few muscle bound types due to their lack functionality.
The answer to why these types of cows are popular here is partly down to the payment grid, but mainly down to subsidy.

As for fancy cattle having more good cuts, I didn't realise that the extra Roasts that come off these big arses were so valuable, because a lot of the selectors of muscular types have forgotten to develop a loin at the same rate as they do an arse.

This is pretty much it in a nutshell. When the subs go , I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot more homebred herds of less fancy types. Also , as more farmers work off farm these days and labour on units continues to fall , a cow may well be calving when no-one is about , so easier calving strains become more important.

Not even all farmers or farm workers live on or near the farm these days. Life is changing for all levels of Society , including farmers , and cattle will change to adapt to lifestyle patterns.

 

[gone up the hill]

Be a step up from my B&Ws...... Which will leave the most profit?

Trouble is if you move up that gear the first year you do it you will be selling Fri steers fhinshed at £1200 head and buying in E/U grade cattle at £1000+ where as you currently are replacing the fat Fri steers at £650 head so in effect for the first year you switch you will have very little net income from cattle..

As for comparing, not a lot difference in profit margins between buying Fri steers at the above and selling for £1200 or buying E/U grade cattle at £1000 and selling for £1500+..

 

[RDL]

Report from local paper on the sale.

 

[Northeastfarmer]

View attachment 455966
Report from local paper on the sale.

Black bulling heifer looks a lovely beast