promises promises

[glasshouse]

If kids are working on the farm they should've paid a decent wage, if the farm cannot afford it then it is not viable.
Why should there be a sense of entitlement?

But they never pay a proper wage, thats the problem.
it goes down the generations.
Father never got a proper wage, so cant pay the son properly coz he needs that money to live.

 

[kiwi pom]

But they never pay a proper wage, thats the problem.
it goes down the generations.
Father never got a proper wage, so cant pay the son properly coz he needs that money to live.

What's a proper wage though? If the parents run the show then the son/daughter are probably only gfw's which isn't a huge wage, depending on their situation if they're getting everything paid for at home and still have a bit of money Its perhaps about right?

 

[stewart]

What's a proper wage though? If the parents run the show then the son/daughter are probably only gfw's which isn't a huge wage, depending on their situation if they're getting everything paid for at home and still have a bit of money Its perhaps about right?

If they get their keep free and a vehicle from the farm plus a bit of money on top then it may work out about right and be the equivalent of a wage, it is then at odds with expecting the farm because they have "worked for nothing".
When the kids work for me I pay them the going rate, this gives them an idea of their worth as an employee I also do not want anyone working for me gratis. If you are willing to work for nothing you will steal.

 

[steveR]

You at least need capital accounts to show the partners shares of the capital in the business. That way, any profits you make can be allocated in a transparent way and recorded and accumulated. You can't really expect to acquire a share of the land or the parents assets other than laid down by their wills as its their personal capital asset.

Yes, YES and YES!

 

[glasshouse]

If they get their keep free and a vehicle from the farm plus a bit of money on top then it may work out about right and be the equivalent of a wage, it is then at odds with expecting the farm because they have "worked for nothing".
When the kids work for me I pay them the going rate, this gives them an idea of their worth as an employee I also do not want anyone working for me gratis. If you are willing to work for nothing you will steal.

Thats rather simplistic.
A son working at home getting pocket money cannot go and get a mortgage to buy a house, cant get a credit rating etc etc.
So that becomes a trap. Should be paid a managers salary if he is managing.
NZ seems to do this a whole lot better with more fluidity and banks that actually lend for farming, but high land costs are impacting everywhere.

 

[Princess Pooper]

Daughters or sons who get education paid for and get good jobs elsewhere should expect nothing from a farm inheritance. If they do, they should give it back to the working sibling.

The parents should make some provision for them though - a cottage or some other inheritance. The farm-working siblings should get the opportunity to build up capital within the business, I fully agree, even if a decent wage cannot be afforded, to recognise their hard work and commitment, but any others should still get a fair inheritance, all other things being equal. So it might be that when parents die or retire, the farming offspring have worked up to 30% of the business capital. The parents remaining 70% should not automatically go to them. A farmer I know decided to sell his farm because he had 4 kids from 2 marriages and he could not be fair to all without diminishing the viability of the farm and none wanted showed any interest in their teens anyway.

 

[worker]

The parents should make some provision for them though - a cottage or some other inheritance. The farm-working siblings should get the opportunity to build up capital within the business, I fully agree, even if a decent wage cannot be afforded, to recognise their hard work and commitment, but any others should still get a fair inheritance, all other things being equal. So it might be that when parents die or retire, the farming offspring have worked up to 30% of the business capital. The parents remaining 70% should not automatically go to them. A farmer I know decided to sell his farm because he had 4 kids from 2 marriages and he could not be fair to all without diminishing the viability of the farm and none wanted showed any interest in their teens anyway.

Unfortunately a lot of sons grow up with a sense of entitlement and treat their sisters with disdain, this an wreak carnage within a family, and none of the siblings can understand the other side

 

[primmiemoo]

Unfortunately a lot of sons grow up with a sense of entitlement and treat their sisters with disdain, this an wreak carnage within a family, and none of the siblings can understand the other side

Agreed there.
I can bring to mind more than one family where that's happened. In one, a sister had talent, brains, and demonstrated clear aptitude to run the farm, yet it went to the only brother, years her junior who's never quite up to speed.
Nice chap though he is to people who aren't his siblings, he's completely blind to the hurt caused to his sis.

 

[DrWazzock]

Does anybody on family farms get a salary though? Dad used to draw a few hundred a month for housekeeping and paid the utility bills out of the farm account. He allowed himself £20 a month pocket money. Any spare money, not that there is much of it, stayed in the farm as it does now. The lifestyle counts for something and the generally lower living expenses. When I first went away to work most of my salary went on rent. I don't think urban man is left with that much either at the end of the month. His living expenses are generally higher and unavoidable.

The main thing though is to make sure you are working towards something and never take anything for granted. Always best to have a plan B as well, in case the rug gets pulled.

 

[stewart]

Thats rather simplistic.
A son working at home getting pocket money cannot go and get a mortgage to buy a house, cant get a credit rating etc etc.
So that becomes a trap. Should be paid a managers salary if he is managing.
NZ seems to do this a whole lot better with more fluidity and banks that actually lend for farming, but high land costs are impacting everywhere.

The simplest solutions generally work better. It is also pragmatic. If working at home ( son or daughter) for pocket money means you cannot get a mortgage or credit rating then it would be advantageous to be paid a decent wage, as mentioned previously this gives them an idea of the value of the work they do. Let them buy and run their own vehicle along with paying their own living expenses nothing wrong with finding out at an early age what the cost of living is.
If they are managing the farm then they should be paid accordingly.

 

[glasshouse]

Non farm siblings are slways keen on getting some assets, never so keen on taking on the overdraft.

 

[worker]

Non farm siblings are slways keen on getting some assets, never so keen on taking on the overdraft.

Not so...we just want fairness

 

[Frodo2]

Non farm siblings are slways keen on getting some assets, never so keen on taking on the overdraft.

That's because they are too busy worrying about there own mortgages.

 

[stewart]

Non farm siblings are slways keen on getting some assets, never so keen on taking on the overdraft.

Value the farm, deduct borrowings from the figure and divide the amount equally, everyone gets their fair share. Far better than living in dead mans shoes.

 

[kiwi pom]

Agreed there.
I can bring to mind more than one family where that's happened. In one, a sister had talent, brains, and demonstrated clear aptitude to run the farm, yet it went to the only brother, years her junior who's never quite up to speed.
Nice chap though he is to people who aren't his siblings, he's completely blind to the hurt caused to his sis.

I've seen similar, I wonder if the parents are blind to it or they think he or she has the brains and talent to make it regardless, so we'll set the other one up with the farm to help them?

 

[deere 6600]

You are right, but when is the start?
Helping while at school, helping while at college, while looking for work......
And the parents are waiting to see if they are committed, have a 'reliable' partner etc.
It's very easy to see how everyone let's things drift 'to see what happens...'.

If you allow your son or daughter to come home to work on family farm rather than get a 'proper' job succession starts then end of

 

[stewart]

If you allow your son or daughter to come home to work on family farm rather than get a 'proper' job succession starts then end of

Why?

 

[kiwi pom]

If you allow your son or daughter to come home to work on family farm rather than get a 'proper' job succession starts then end of

Why? You've just provided them with a job that's all. If mum and dad are still in control of the farm you're just a farm worker.
If a farm worker worked on one farm all their life, they wouldn't expect to inherit the farm would they.
If the parents want you to work on the farm in order to take over one day then it should be properly discussed before hand.
In the situation up thread what happens if there's only room for one and the oldest stays?
Or one leaves is successful and wants to buy the farm off their parents so they can have a comfortable retirement?

 

[primmiemoo]

I've seen similar, I wonder if the parents are blind to it or they think he or she has the brains and talent to make it regardless, so we'll set the other one up with the farm to help them?

Not sure, tbh. It could be that each case is different.

As someone looking in from the outside on the family I mention, it felt like old fashioned sexism. The parents had some children, and then had a son. The daughters were out of the picture after that, regardless, but money was spent on their weddings.
The attitude is around in pantomime form in Mrs Brown's Boys (sitcom shown on BBC), so it still exists this far into the C21st.

In this case, the family farm is now no more.

(Just to clarify, I'm not drawing any parallels to the case in the OP.)

 

[glasshouse]

That's because they are too busy worrying about there own mortgages.

They are lucky to have a mortgage!