Pure Angus cows, what bull?

[CharcoalWally]

if it was me i'd stick to the angus

What , even when Angus says that they're failing in an important part of his system? Doesn't sound like a good plan to me.

 

[Dave6170]

We use a sim bull on our aax cows and aa bull on our simx cows. Id rather have a shorthorn instead of the sim bull, but we have had a few in the past and the calves didnt sell as well as the sims. Would like a shorthorn for replacements.

 

[JD-Kid]

not realy number 5 on the OP posting is a low cost system cows getting back in calf and alack of caveing probs are big factors can't sell a dead calf and dry cows cost to keep
milking seems to be a big factor are hybred crosses going to milk better or even frist cross calfs going to do a lot better under the system in place
we used to have about 150 beef cows all types of breeds dairy cross sim's lim's angus/lims used lim and lim/angus bulls later on used beef shavers on harder ground higher milkers and euro breeds did not do as well as the beef shavers

 

[curvebender]

Black Stabiliser bull - looks like an Angus, polled, milky, docile, easy fleshing, super fertile, loaded with hybrid vigour.......job sorted!!

Follow link below - James E has calved 82% of his Stabiliser herd in 6 weeks, 149 calves from 150 cows, 2 assitances. http://www.fwi.co.uk/articles/24/05...ing-club-highlights-performance-potential.htm

 

[Poorbuthappy]

Black Stabiliser bull - looks like an Angus, polled, milky, docile, easy fleshing, super fertile, loaded with hybrid vigour.......job sorted!!

Follow link below - James E has calved 82% of his Stabiliser herd in 6 weeks, 149 calves from 150 cows, 2 assitances. http://www.fwi.co.uk/articles/24/05...ing-club-highlights-performance-potential.htm

Whilst I'm a fan of the stabiliser, I'm not sure it's the right answer for the op, as I doubt it will gain him anything in the store ring.
Unless of course he wants a complete change and breed up to pure stabiliser and take advantage of the breed society premiums on heifers.

 

[Bojangles]

I don't think you guys appreciate how bad the ground and weather is where op is farming

 

[Walterp]

Typical Scotsman, never happy, always wants more...

As some others, who still live on Planet Earth, have pointed out you're in fact already doing rather well if all you have to worry about is sire breed - assuming you've already sorted out fertility, calf mortality, dam longevity, a very generous subsidy (that's gonna be doubled, if I read it right?) then you have a near-enough 100% calf/dam ratio and a ready market for the calves, with a Government top-up.

And, if you haven't sorted out all those crucial issues, then I'd suggest focussing on that, rather than trying to complicate the job: profitability depends more on herd performance than on terminal sire. And, across the board, UK beef herd performance is, generally, very poor.

There's a reason why they invented KISS - it works.

(But if you're desperate for novelty, why not go buy a Line One bull from Mr John Douglas at Mains of Ervie? Black Baldies can work surprisingly well, but I'd still suggest that better pure breeding is, probably, the better option. You could always try one for one year, maybe?)

 

[Devil's advocate]

Hahahaha. Lim and docile in the same sentence!

I deliver straw to a farm where they milk a pair of limmy x dairy shorthorns. Tied up in tie stall dairy with 40 dairy cows. Quiet as mice.

 

[Walterp]

I deliver straw to a farm where they milk a pair of limmy x dairy shorthorns. Tied up in tie stall dairy with 40 dairy cows. Quiet as mice.

There are Angus and Limousins here, handled through the system every 60 days - the Angus are, consistently, far wilder than the Limousins.

They react far more nastily to being handled, whilst the Limousins just don't like being cornered or isolated: in a line of heifers, it's always the Anguses that are playing up, whilst the Limousins are relatively calm.

It's just that Angus can't jump as high...

 

[curvebender]

Whilst I'm a fan of the stabiliser, I'm not sure it's the right answer for the op, as I doubt it will gain him anything in the store ring.
Unless of course he wants a complete change and breed up to pure stabiliser and take advantage of the breed society premiums on heifers.

The OP said he wants to inject vigour and everyone seems to be agreeing why complicating things so why not use Black Stabiliser (offspring will still be 75% Angus so still hard as nails and Angus part of Stabiliser will be US Angus so fresh bloodlines). He can then put heifers back to Angus and could keep criss crossing if he so wishes, I'm led to believe quite a few Angus boys are already doing this.

 

[M-J-G]

There are Angus and Limousins here, handled through the system every 60 days - the Angus are, consistently, far wilder than the Limousins.

They react far more nastily to being handled, whilst the Limousins just don't like being cornered or isolated: in a line of heifers, it's always the Anguses that are playing up, whilst the Limousins are relatively calm.

It's just that Angus can't jump as high...

Not a great reference for AA or Lim then.

 

[M-J-G]

The OP said he wants to inject vigour and everyone seems to be agreeing why complicating things so why not use Black Stabiliser (offspring will still be 75% Angus so still hard as nails and Angus part of Stabiliser will be US Angus so fresh bloodlines). He can then put heifers back to Angus and could keep criss crossing if he so wishes, I'm led to believe quite a few Angus boys are already doing this.

That's just a 3/4 angus as you've said, More AA will make the next generation 7/8 Angus, which is more or less back to square 1.

I'd go with an easy calving but growthy Char if you'd like to go terminal, or a stretchy milky Hereford or very dark coloured Sim to get a Black Baldy type heifer to sell or keep.

 

[Robert81]

Hi folks,

We have ran a herd of 50 pure angus cows for about 15years, Its now up to me where the herd goes, now i am not going to rip the angus cows to bits they are doing a job, we are on hard hill ground in the highlands of scotland the cows outwinter and we sell calves store around 6 months old, bullocks avg £680 last year.
The problem is i feel we really need to inject some hybrid vigor, the cows are lacking milk big time!!! and not fleshing up in the summer the odd old cross cow we have is always fatter. Also the heifer calves dont sell well!

So the Big question... What bull do you folk think??

1) Simmy All ways wanted 1, what does the first cross look like? dun, rat tails?
2) Whitebred, would love to have some nice blue roan heifers but maybe the drop in bullock value not worth it?
3) Stabilizers, Like the idea but not seen any
4) Beef shorthorn could get a loan of a bull what colour would the calves be?
5) Angus, stick with what we know never calve them, very easy care ours are very docile, get back in calf well, Get the creep feeding into the calves!!

Thank you for any help, bit of pressure on me to get this right!!

Where are you looking to take your herd @west coast angus?
More weight sold per cow, more cows, more profit?
Are your cows costing or making money ?
Sounds to me like you've no big fixed costs alongside a system requiring little labour time. Could you run more of the same ?
If you can avoid filling creep feeders, buying in replacements (disease risk) and building sheds, you're on the right path. You can breed milk into your herd with targeted selection of herd sires.

My point being the grass isn't always greener.

 

[west coast angus]

Hi guys, just in thanks for your input, I will try and paint a better picture of things,

Cows out wintered on beef stock nuts 18% and forage the hill, then get silage and calf end feb, almost always finshed before lambing starts 6th april, cows then fed very well to get them going before bulling end of may, cows then come down to better grass middle of june stay there all summer, till calfs are sold september or october, cows then go back to the hill and slogg it out till we start feeding about the start of december maybe sooner if weather is really bad, start all over again.

We can get over 126 inches of rain sleet and snow some years. 1200 acres, North east faceing. most of the ground is rubbish about 6, 10acre silage fields and some greener stuff along about a mile of coast line.

The cows with a bit of something else in them always do a better job of their calf, and always in better condition come the winter, this is why i am keen on crossing them and make use of hybrid vigour.

Say we went sim and kept 20 or so heifers over a couple of years i would go back to the Angus but only keep heifers out of the Sim crosses.

Who sells black stabiliser bulls? sounds good!

 

[Robert81]

Would you plan to sell male calves in the store ring ?

 

[west coast angus]

Would you plan to sell male calves in the store ring ?

yes the sooner they are off the cows the better.

 

[west coast angus]

There are Angus and Limousins here, handled through the system every 60 days - the Angus are, consistently, far wilder than the Limousins.

They react far more nastily to being handled, whilst the Limousins just don't like being cornered or isolated: in a line of heifers, it's always the Anguses that are playing up, whilst the Limousins are relatively calm.

It's just that Angus can't jump as high...

Walterp dont know where you get your Angus bulls from but our cows a really quite easy to work only had 1 that was nasty and she is long gone! will not tolerate that type of cattle, life is to short!

 

[Robert81]

yes the sooner they are off the cows the better.

You know what is selling well when you have your Angus calves at the market. Are any of the sought after pens Stabiliser? Sound a great breed if you can take the males through to finishing, not so convinced they'd cash well in the store ring.
I breed Angus and put them across my commercial cows. There's not a big market for calves from 'maternal' breeds until they are 10 months plus and ideally sold in early spring.
If you find a market for your surplus heifer calves, they could subsidise your male calves. It works for the majority of Salers users.

 

[west coast angus]

You know what is selling well when you have your Angus calves at the market. Are any of the sought after pens Stabiliser? Sound a great breed if you can take the males through to finishing, not so convinced they'd cash well in the store ring.
I breed Angus and put them across my commercial cows. There's not a big market for calves from 'maternal' breeds until they are 10 months plus and ideally sold in early spring.
If you find a market for your surplus heifer calves, they could subsidise your male calves. It works for the majority of Salers users.

Never seen stabilisers sold round here. Your right about selling surplus heifer calves need to find a market ours would be elite health, but its to expensive at the mo to bother with!

 

[Gilchro]

Never seen stabilisers sold round here. Your right about selling surplus heifer calves need to find a market ours would be elite health, but its to expensive at the mo to bother with!

Why?

Cost is one way to look at it. The other is benefits.

1. Your market becomes premiumised
2. You will discover what your herd's current state is
3. You can act to remove the issues that exist

Not only will the removal of problem cows help you with the health status, the improved health status will increase your bottom line through lower vet bills and better performance.