- Location
- S E Glos
135 units is 170 kg/ha N
180 units is 225 kg/ha N (heck of a lot). I take it back, ladle on the Moddus!
180 units is 225 kg/ha N (heck of a lot). I take it back, ladle on the Moddus!
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Pushing The Limits Of The Barley
- Thread starter franklin
- Start date
Is net margin a high priority for you @static ? I'm sure it is but you haven't made that explicit - I'll come back to this.
As above, don't expect barn busting yield if you have any kind of waterlogging stress at any stage of the season. Sort the drainage & soil structure out or don't bother growing winter barley. If you can't do that then don't read any further.
Early N is essential to promote and retain tillers. Put 80 kg on in late Feb instead of 40. As soon as you see the stems become erect for GS 30 then bring the N dose up to 60-70% of the planned total. Consider sewage cake or FYM pre drilling to help with autumn & winter tiller survival. Consider sowing in mid September not late September for this reason too. I used 200 kg/ha N on light land and kept it standing though it brackled quite soon after ripening.
The Syngenta guide for hybrids isn't a bad recipe for any winter barley IMO. Moddus is pretty good but you only need 0.1 l/ha per dose or you risk scorch. If you use chlormequat you are tying yourself to applying Terpal later to prevent bounceback (longer internode later on to compensate for the 3C shortening the lower ones). I applied my Terpal at GS 33 as a separate dose so I didn't scorch it & ensured I could afford to wait on T2 timings until the awns were out. It moves through growth stages very fast & I hate shortening a fungicide interval & go before ears just emerging just to fit Terpal into the mix.
Fungicides - tailor them for your visible disease or risk. Proline is good but Siltra doesn't really have enough SDHI compared with a home brew of others. I used 0.25 Proline + 1 Cebara partly for the Guarantee. From memory I used epoxi + Amistar Opti at T2 for a broader spectrum including ramularia. I used to do a T0 due to Volume's weakness for mildew & rust. Ceando or Corbel would do, plus it is an opportunity to get a pgr on & do wild oats early. BLW done by Starane XL at T1.
Here's one major caveat - my 5 year average yield is 8 t/ha with hybrids being a good half of that each year. The cost of growing a hybrid with 200 kg/ha N, 3C, Moddus fb Terpal and 3 fungicide applications is 9.5 t/ha at current values. Winter barley was a 3rd cereal here and grass weeds were starting to multiply up. There are better winter barley growers than me!
With a reduced osr area here and direct drilling, I didn't see the need for 2 consecutive loss making crops on my farm (WW/SBarley/WBarley/WOSR). Winter barley is great for spreading harvest logistics and doing remedial work to the ground, applying manures to the ground then getting a good early entry for osr.
Why not split the farm's barley area? Do half on an intensive input regime with 200+ kg/ha N, multiple PGRs and 3 fungicides. Do the other half on a cheap & cheerful "normal" programme with 2 fungicides, Terpal only if needed & 180 kg/ha N. Report your findings in TFF, including the net margin, or at least the difference in gross margin between the 2 approaches.. Repeat for a few years.
As above, don't expect barn busting yield if you have any kind of waterlogging stress at any stage of the season. Sort the drainage & soil structure out or don't bother growing winter barley. If you can't do that then don't read any further.
Early N is essential to promote and retain tillers. Put 80 kg on in late Feb instead of 40. As soon as you see the stems become erect for GS 30 then bring the N dose up to 60-70% of the planned total. Consider sewage cake or FYM pre drilling to help with autumn & winter tiller survival. Consider sowing in mid September not late September for this reason too. I used 200 kg/ha N on light land and kept it standing though it brackled quite soon after ripening.
The Syngenta guide for hybrids isn't a bad recipe for any winter barley IMO. Moddus is pretty good but you only need 0.1 l/ha per dose or you risk scorch. If you use chlormequat you are tying yourself to applying Terpal later to prevent bounceback (longer internode later on to compensate for the 3C shortening the lower ones). I applied my Terpal at GS 33 as a separate dose so I didn't scorch it & ensured I could afford to wait on T2 timings until the awns were out. It moves through growth stages very fast & I hate shortening a fungicide interval & go before ears just emerging just to fit Terpal into the mix.
Fungicides - tailor them for your visible disease or risk. Proline is good but Siltra doesn't really have enough SDHI compared with a home brew of others. I used 0.25 Proline + 1 Cebara partly for the Guarantee. From memory I used epoxi + Amistar Opti at T2 for a broader spectrum including ramularia. I used to do a T0 due to Volume's weakness for mildew & rust. Ceando or Corbel would do, plus it is an opportunity to get a pgr on & do wild oats early. BLW done by Starane XL at T1.
Here's one major caveat - my 5 year average yield is 8 t/ha with hybrids being a good half of that each year. The cost of growing a hybrid with 200 kg/ha N, 3C, Moddus fb Terpal and 3 fungicide applications is 9.5 t/ha at current values. Winter barley was a 3rd cereal here and grass weeds were starting to multiply up. There are better winter barley growers than me!
With a reduced osr area here and direct drilling, I didn't see the need for 2 consecutive loss making crops on my farm (WW/SBarley/WBarley/WOSR). Winter barley is great for spreading harvest logistics and doing remedial work to the ground, applying manures to the ground then getting a good early entry for osr.
Why not split the farm's barley area? Do half on an intensive input regime with 200+ kg/ha N, multiple PGRs and 3 fungicides. Do the other half on a cheap & cheerful "normal" programme with 2 fungicides, Terpal only if needed & 180 kg/ha N. Report your findings in TFF, including the net margin, or at least the difference in gross margin between the 2 approaches.. Repeat for a few years.
Jetemp
Member
- Location
- North Yorkshire
As much nitrogen as you can chuck at it 240 kg will be fine.
Split dose ccc modus at t0 t1, possibly with a terpal just before ear emergence depending on the crop and season.
I've said it on here before for me the low seed rate syngenta push is more about getting comparinle seed costs that getting the best crop canopy.
You need to be looking to building a canopy with somewhere in the region of 700+ ears/m2. Work back from this to get your seed rate. We all know about barleys reduced tiller I got capacity! We sow at 300-350 seeds/m2.
You then need to keep this plant as clean and green as you can for as long as you can, would probably look towards two sdhi fungicides at t1 and t2 timings. As with brisel used ceando at t0 with its first growth reg.
We are heavy clay land that doesn't really suffer from drought stress. You would have to decide wether your soil type is capable of sustaining this level of yield. We are very keen on liming an ph will generally I. The region of 6.5+. The biggest benefit to hybrids is there capability to withstand climatic issues that conventional varieties wouldnt
Split dose ccc modus at t0 t1, possibly with a terpal just before ear emergence depending on the crop and season.
I've said it on here before for me the low seed rate syngenta push is more about getting comparinle seed costs that getting the best crop canopy.
You need to be looking to building a canopy with somewhere in the region of 700+ ears/m2. Work back from this to get your seed rate. We all know about barleys reduced tiller I got capacity! We sow at 300-350 seeds/m2.
You then need to keep this plant as clean and green as you can for as long as you can, would probably look towards two sdhi fungicides at t1 and t2 timings. As with brisel used ceando at t0 with its first growth reg.
We are heavy clay land that doesn't really suffer from drought stress. You would have to decide wether your soil type is capable of sustaining this level of yield. We are very keen on liming an ph will generally I. The region of 6.5+. The biggest benefit to hybrids is there capability to withstand climatic issues that conventional varieties wouldnt
Feldspar
Member
- Location
- Essex, Cambs and Suffolk
Which area? IIRC, but would need to check, NIAB TAG data had hybrids a way out in front.
DRC
Member
looks like Anglesey was the place to go on holiday
DRC
Member
Local grain merchant that sells a lot of feed barley , said, whatever you do, don't grow that hybrid stuff, as we can't sell it.
'twas the later the better round here last year, Brisel.
My Meridian did better than my Volume despite being sown on poorer land a month later.
Much better specific weight too, which you'd probably not expect.
Yup. I have 100ac of barley in the ground this year, and the reason for that is twofold. Firstly, I like the crop as it gets me time and I have a larger area to cut this year. Secondly, I like the competitive nature of the crop. Atlantis excluded, I have the same grassweed options as in wheat really.
I think we are free of any major water issues now. The land is in good order and bar one headland which I should have subsoiled I have no yellow patches. Crop is nice and even and pretty thick looking. Which is how I want it.
My expected cost of growing, including P&K, lime, seed, rent and land work is not too bad given the price I bought the fert for. Its looking to be about £440/ac, so looking at a break-even yield of 3t/ac excluding straw. Thats before the benefits of clear land and an earlyish drilled crop of OSR.
I dont really want to be driving through the crop too many times, so 3 passes with the spreader and the same with the sprayer would suit me, with PGR in each dose. Would that be 0.1lt of Moddus each split, or 0.05 each time? What about Canopy for growth regulation? If the timing fits, i'll be putting the Terpal on, as the extra days cutting can soon vanish if you are picking up flat corn and I dont care what the old boys say about flat barley. Flat anything is a bad thing.
deleted user 837354
Member
There is no way you will convince me to chuck tonnes of expensive SDHI chemistry at barley, at least not yet. Strobs + proline still doing a cracking job from what I can see?
Don't grow it on land that is heavy and goes wet and cold, it really doesn't like it.
I agree with getting a whack of N on early as soon as you can travel and it is warming, you need the tillers. 0.2 Moddus + up to 1.25L 3C with first fungicide pass I think but only if the crop is looking angry.
I would be tempted to put manganese/copper on every time you go through the crop I don't think you will regret it.
Sort weeds early as the stuff grows too fast to be left.
I am told canopy is kinder than terpal.
Done 2 vs 3 passes before and found no real difference in yields, just added cost!
Is mildew in barley really a big deal?
Yields and spec weights in this part of the world were not good, it was not a good season for barley I'm afraid.
Don't grow it on land that is heavy and goes wet and cold, it really doesn't like it.
I agree with getting a whack of N on early as soon as you can travel and it is warming, you need the tillers. 0.2 Moddus + up to 1.25L 3C with first fungicide pass I think but only if the crop is looking angry.
I would be tempted to put manganese/copper on every time you go through the crop I don't think you will regret it.
Sort weeds early as the stuff grows too fast to be left.
I am told canopy is kinder than terpal.
Done 2 vs 3 passes before and found no real difference in yields, just added cost!
Is mildew in barley really a big deal?
Yields and spec weights in this part of the world were not good, it was not a good season for barley I'm afraid.
Jetemp
Member
- Location
- North Yorkshire
For me I will be going through the crop with a growth regulator at t0 timing so adding cheap and cheerful fungicide in is a no brainer really. As Ollie manganese added in most passes
Terpal fine as long as it's applied before awns emerged.
If I take last year out our 5 year average yield is around 4.2 tonnes last year we averaged 3.6
Terpal fine as long as it's applied before awns emerged.
If I take last year out our 5 year average yield is around 4.2 tonnes last year we averaged 3.6
farmerm
Member
- Location
- Shropshire
I would usually need a hover craft to apply N on our ground in February...
mushnt grummmble
Member
