Questions about farm lorries

[Bignor Farmer]

I’m looking into buying a Beavertail lorry (14-18t) to transport my tractor and match plough around. The easy way to do this is to register it for private use and keep it completely outside the farm. As far as I can see it would need an annual test, a calibrated tacho and I would have to comply with drivers hours because it is over 7.5t.

But... it would be quite a handy thing to have around the farm as well, carting a bit of seed and fert, perhaps a de-mount livestock float as well. Would this make things tricky?
Occasionally moving my own ag products within 100km of base is tacho and CPC exempt?
I assume I would need a restricted operators licence?
Can I still use it for private use (without CPC) and only use the tacho/drivers hours records for these weeks?

Obviously claiming a proportion of the VAT on purchase and running costs is also attractive but I don’t want to take the p*ss with any rules.

Thanks in advance

 

[betweenthelines]

If you use it solely for "own use" you won't need a Manager's CPC (still need a Driver CPC)

Be interested to know how you intend to prove you have complied with driver's hours rules, such as proving you have 45 hours break from ALL work in every two week period, don't do ANY WORK one day/week, no more than 60 hours work in a week, don't have a working day of 15 hours + (most dairy farmers would struggle with that one)

Not up to the Authorities to prove any of the above, it's up to you to prove that you comply

 

[40 series]

I maybe wrong but if your only moving your own kit and its not for hire or reward and if the driving of the truck is not your main job you dont need a drivers cpc

 

[Bignor Farmer]

I maybe wrong but if your only moving your own kit and its not for hire or reward and if the driving of the truck is not your main job you dont need a drivers cpc

That was my understanding, if under 100km and driving the truck is not the main part of your job.

 

[40 series]

So my friendly local hgv cpc instructor told me.

 

[Mark C]

The CPC rules changed in July this year as 40 series says, you don't need a CPC as it's not your main job. However I am not sure whether you will be under Drivers hours and EU working time directive when you do use the tacho.

Drivers’ hours and tachographs: goods vehicles - 1. EU and AETR rules on drivers’ hours - Guidance - GOV.UK

How the EU drivers' hours rules for goods vehicles work.

www.gov.uk

 

[Bignor Farmer]

If you use it solely for "own use" you won't need a Manager's CPC (still need a Driver CPC)

Be interested to know how you intend to prove you have complied with driver's hours rules, such as proving you have 45 hours break from ALL work in every two week period, don't do ANY WORK one day/week, no more than 60 hours work in a week, don't have a working day of 15 hours + (most dairy farmers would struggle with that one)

Not up to the Authorities to prove any of the above, it's up to you to prove that you comply

That’s part of what I’m asking really. Though I read somewhere that you need to keep an up to date written log of work/breaks for the week before, during and after your driving? Could well be wrong though

 

[40 series]

Keep your lorry right for the road.
Drive to the right speed limits.
Everything well loaded and secured.
Fill your tacho in and do your bit of driving
Thats what i do

 

[Robt]

I maybe wrong but if your only moving your own kit and its not for hire or reward and if the driving of the truck is not your main job you dont need a drivers cpc

The phrase “ hire and reward” is no longer used I think. It’s now “for commercial gain”..... so different rules

 

[betweenthelines]

So that would bring farm use into the Regs

 

[betweenthelines]

That’s part of what I’m asking really. Though I read somewhere that you need to keep an up to date written log of work/breaks for the week before, during and after your driving? Could well be wrong though

I thin k you come under Tacho regs if you driver a truck more than 13 times in a year.

The point I was making is that it easy for a full time lorry driver (or anyone who has to clock-in at work) to prove when they haven't worked.

Unfortunately, the Authorities usually go after the lorry driver if they are involved in a serious RTA (even when clearly not their fault.) So, if for instance a cyclist comes off his bike and injures himself, tells the Police you were veering all over the road, they'll be all over you. They'll check phone records, not just to see if you were on the phone at the time but if you make "business" calls (ie are working) every day. And as a working farmer, you may well be "working" (even if it's just a couple of hours) for the last 4 or five weeks, in which case, they'll throw the book at you.

I'm not being paranoid either. I used to work with an ex DVSA Enforcement officer who told me what they would look for. Even down to trucks with digital tachos that record miles driven having more than 1 km of driving with no driver tachograph card! Stobarts had to take some of their fleet off the road due to this.

 

[Bignor Farmer]

I thin k you come under Tacho regs if you driver a truck more than 13 times in a year.

The point I was making is that it easy for a full time lorry driver (or anyone who has to clock-in at work) to prove when they haven't worked.

Unfortunately, the Authorities usually go after the lorry driver if they are involved in a serious RTA (even when clearly not their fault.) So, if for instance a cyclist comes off his bike and injures himself, tells the Police you were veering all over the road, they'll be all over you. They'll check phone records, not just to see if you were on the phone at the time but if you make "business" calls (ie are working) every day. And as a working farmer, you may well be "working" (even if it's just a couple of hours) for the last 4 or five weeks, in which case, they'll throw the book at you.

I'm not being paranoid either. I used to work with an ex DVSA Enforcement officer who told me what they would look for. Even down to trucks with digital tachos that record miles driven having more than 1 km of driving with no driver tachograph card! Stobarts had to take some of their fleet off the road due to this.

I think you’re absolutely right, they’re always going to be looking hard at the driver/condition of the big heavy truck so you need to do everything you can to be compliant. No different to the risks of having an accident in a Fendt and giant trailer if you’ve worked 100hrs in the last week.

Taking my tractor and plough to a match definitely comes under tachos and drivers regs (same as horse boxes over 7.5t) so I want to be compliant and be seen to be compliant as far as possible, just not entirely sure what the best way of proving that is.

 

[Robt]

So that would bring farm use into the Regs

Yes I believe so. So can’t drive past and say not for hire or reward anymore

 

[Bignor Farmer]

Current Ag derogation;

Vehicles used or hired without a driver by agricultural, horticultural, forestry, farming or fishery undertakings for carrying goods as part of their own entrepreneurial activity within a radius of 100 km from the base of the undertaking.
This applies only to those who are an undertaking related to (ie in the business of) the activities of agricultural, horticultural, forestry, farming or fishery and are transporting goods in relation to that business. If an organisation has a division for one of the listed activities then the derogation would apply only to that division. If an organisation as a whole is neither an undertaking, nor has a separate division relating to the listed activities, but it nonetheless operates vehicles occasionally for such purposes the derogation would not apply to its use of vehicles for those occasional purposes.

For a vehicle used by a horticulture undertaking, the derogation would apply to the carriage of goods relating to the small-scale management of non built-up land and which have a tangible link to horticulture so would include the carriage of plants, hard landscaping and fencing materials and related tools.

For a vehicle used by fishery undertakings, the derogation only applies if it is being used to carry live fish or to carry a catch of fish from the place of landing to a place where it is to be processed. The term ‘fish’ includes finfish and shellfish.

Agricultural tractors and forestry tractors used for agricultural or forestry activities within a 100 km radius from the base of the undertaking that owns, hires or leases the tractor.
Vehicles that are used to carry live animals between a farm and a market or from a market to a slaughterhouse where the distance between the farm and the market or between the market and the slaughterhouse does not exceed 100 km.

 

[Campbell]

@Pennine Ploughing . He's yer man

 

[Pennine Ploughing]

@Pennine Ploughing . He's yer man

I have no first hand knowledge about mixed use, on farm and taking a tractor and plough to matches for over 7.5 tonne lorries,
However when we contacted FTA about changing my lorry, I was ok with a 7.5 tonne lorry to run at weekend and without a tachograph, so this did not effect my driving through the week, this meant I could drive 32 tonner for a living Monday to Friday, and jump into my private 7.5 on a Saturday and Sunday, and back to work Monday again,
But if I got a 12 tonner, (which is what I wanted to have a taughtliner body to keep it all dry,) i then come under tachograph rules , this meant I would have to get my weekly rest in some how, either Take time off work though the week or stay home at weekend,
This sounded such a ball ache, I stayed at 7.5 tonne, and managed to just keep in legal, with a vintage tractor and trailer plough, its beaver tail, alloy ramps, a hiab on front to lift plough on off, and a sleeper cab, took a bit of work to keep it under,
So as far as I was told from FTA, I think you may well run into trouble with a big lorry, even if prive use only, and if mixed use, then more so, your problem is going over 7.5 tonne