Red clover silage

[Derrick Hughes]

What’s not to like about red clover personally I think more should be looking at it especially in dairy systems with the ever growing cost of bought in feeds.

Agree

 

[Kevtherev]

Also Lucerne needs a resurgence too in my opinion.

 

[Sid]

Finally managed to cut our new red clover rye grass ley today. Just wondering if anyone has any tips on making a good job of it. It’s going to be put into round bales. Is there any difference to straight grass silage. TIA.

Any silage analysis won't be it's true value unless done with wet chemistry.

Can be difficult to ensile if there isn't enough grass present.

Should let it flower once a season for a long life

 

[Sid]

Also Lucerne needs a resurgence too in my opinion.

Another challenging ensiler

 

[Kevtherev]

Another challenging ensiler

Bit pokey in bales

 

[Pistonbroke]

son has been looking at the ELMS legume option, just 1 cut, in the autumn.

we are told, it makes a good value crop then, any views ? £750 ha

There was an option on Glastir in Wales to grow it to save brown carver bees( whatever the hell they are). Could graze through the winter and mow half of it but not allowed to mow the second half until the first half was back in flower. Not allowed more than ,I think,10%grass with it either.

 

[neilo]

Also Lucerne needs a resurgence too in my opinion.

I’ve always ignored Lucerne, as it supposedly needs free draining, high pH soil.
However, next to the bridge over the Severn at Cilcewedd is a wee field surrounded by high hedges, with the river bank on one side. That field has been in Lucerne for several years and cuts a lot of bales, several times a year. It’s got me scratching my head.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

I’ve always ignored Lucerne, as it supposedly needs free draining, high pH soil.
However, next to the bridge over the Severn at Cilcewedd is a wee field surrounded by high hedges, with the river bank on one side. That field has been in Lucerne for several years and cuts a lot of bales, several times a year. It’s got me scratching my head.

Farming is a bit like that though isn't it , that's why on here there are so many differing oppinions and in a lot of cases all right,
That's nature for you

 

[som farmer]

I’ve always ignored Lucerne, as it supposedly needs free draining, high pH soil.
However, next to the bridge over the Severn at Cilcewedd is a wee field surrounded by high hedges, with the river bank on one side. That field has been in Lucerne for several years and cuts a lot of bales, several times a year. It’s got me scratching my head.

its a great crop, especially on dry ground.

l have grown it, get the right soil, its amazing.

the reasons l stopped growing it were simple, didn't have enough acreage to grow protein, energy - maize, and enough grass. Went with maize instead, protein must have been cheap then !

Grew r/clover straight, as well, for a comparison between the two, r/clover will outgrow lucerne, if your soil ph is tending towards 5.5/6.

There is now a 'grazing' lucerne, 'luzelle', which we will try, when we have to do a dry reseed, the dry mix leys, are lasting much longer, we don't have to do one, this autumn, that's a first.

As said before, we are going to dd, r/clover, and alsike, into a poor spring reseed, and a complete failure ! 10 acres.

 

[Sid]

Can you graze it up to a certain date, or not after Jan 1st?

RC is supposed to retain it’s feed value, but surely it would be pretty woody stuff by the Autumn. Still, at £750/ha, if you can use the crop for something, anything…

You farmers in England are so lucky to have such a generous SFI scheme. (*tin hat on)

I've still not found any option like this anywhere within SFI.
All that glitters is not necessarily true.

SFI actions for nutrient management

Find out about the SFI actions for nutrient management, what land is eligible for each action, and what you need to do to get paid.

www.gov.uk

This is only legume fallow I can see and your not allowed to cut it

 

[Derrick Hughes]

son has been looking at the ELMS legume option, just 1 cut, in the autumn.

we are told, it makes a good value crop then, any views ? £750 ha

That was ab15 I saw in Hereford, one Mass if Red Clover , allowed to cut on the 15th I believe
Hell of a lot of quality stuff and paid to grow it

 

[ollie989898]

Red clover really wants to be cut with mowers using a grouper and left in one big swath to wilt. The less you can handle it the better as Neil said otherwise you can lose a lot of material.

Red clover and lucerne are better suited to fields which do not hang too wet. If the soil type contains significant amounts of clay I would select red clover over lucerne. They both need to be cut frequently and treated gently. I had customers who had some of theirs baled on occasion using choppers in the baler and it looked good feed to me though I never saw an analysis.

Weed control was always a bit difficult but may be easier with the launch of new clover safe chemistry but even so it is best to avoid sowing them in fields you know to be very dirty.

They both require soil rich in P and K. Customers of mine fed theirs with slurry or digestate from time to time but only modest doses and absolutely do not drive on them in the wet, neither will take much punishment in cold wet conditions.

I have often wondered what a stand of red clover with some smaller leafed white clover underneath it would go like as a cutting crop, if anyone has done it please post your experiences/photos.

 

[som farmer]

Red clover really wants to be cut with mowers using a grouper and left in one big swath to wilt. The less you can handle it the better as Neil said otherwise you can lose a lot of material.

Red clover and lucerne are better suited to fields which do not hang too wet. If the soil type contains significant amounts of clay I would select red clover over lucerne. They both need to be cut frequently and treated gently. I had customers who had some of theirs baled on occasion using choppers in the baler and it looked good feed to me though I never saw an analysis.

Weed control was always a bit difficult but may be easier with the launch of new clover safe chemistry but even so it is best to avoid sowing them in fields you know to be very dirty.

They both require soil rich in P and K. Customers of mine fed theirs with slurry or digestate from time to time but only modest doses and absolutely do not drive on them in the wet, neither will take much punishment in cold wet conditions.

I have often wondered what a stand of red clover with some smaller leafed white clover underneath it would go like as a cutting crop, if anyone has done it please post your experiences/photos.

not clover, but l was looking at the game cover that's here.

Maize is a good 6ft, it was 'undersown' with sorghum and millet, all drilled a 'bit' to thick.

what we have, is a good crop of maize, with a dense crop of millet/sorghum, 3 ft high under it.

both look really good, so don't appear to be competing, is this a possible field size ? Certainly could create a big volume.

 

[neilo]

Red clover really wants to be cut with mowers using a grouper and left in one big swath to wilt. The less you can handle it the better as Neil said otherwise you can lose a lot of material.

Red clover and lucerne are better suited to fields which do not hang too wet. If the soil type contains significant amounts of clay I would select red clover over lucerne. They both need to be cut frequently and treated gently. I had customers who had some of theirs baled on occasion using choppers in the baler and it looked good feed to me though I never saw an analysis.

Weed control was always a bit difficult but may be easier with the launch of new clover safe chemistry but even so it is best to avoid sowing them in fields you know to be very dirty.

They both require soil rich in P and K. Customers of mine fed theirs with slurry or digestate from time to time but only modest doses and absolutely do not drive on them in the wet, neither will take much punishment in cold wet conditions.

I have often wondered what a stand of red clover with some smaller leafed white clover underneath it would go like as a cutting crop, if anyone has done it please post your experiences/photos.

I have a Westerwold/RC/WC ley in it’s third year of mowing & (predominantly) grazing. The red is still there, as is some of the Godawful Westerwold (having self seeded a few times), but the WC is really thriving.

I was toying with the idea of a squirt of glyphosate this Autumn, then DD some brassicas in for a winter crop (the clover would obviously recover), before a Spring crop… but it’s too good to kill out yet.

 

[gone up the hill]

Red clover silage is rocket fuel.

Needs to be in a mix with other grasses thou and not just straight clover if for roundbales.

Make sure you put a lot of wrap on when wrapping ( do not skimp on the wrap per bale as it will backfire ) and also rat bait the stack very well, also put a net over the stack the minute the last bale is wrapped to stop the two legged birds!

 

[neilo]

Make sure you put a lot of wrap on when wrapping ( do not skimp on the wrap per bale as it will backfire ) and also rat bait the stack very well, also put a net over the stack the minute the last bale is wrapped to stop the two legged birds!

Why? Rats and birds don’t bother my red clover bales any more than they do grass silage bales.

I’d certainly agree if we were talking about wholecrop in bales, but not RC ime.

 

[Sid]

I have a Westerwold/RC/WC ley in it’s third year of mowing & (predominantly) grazing. The red is still there, as is some of the Godawful Westerwold (having self seeded a few times), but the WC is really thriving.

I was toying with the idea of a squirt of glyphosate this Autumn, then DD some brassicas in for a winter crop (the clover would obviously recover), before a Spring crop… but it’s too good to kill out yet.

This is where we all really need to change our mindset.
The biomass that could be incorporated into the mix for soil food and then onto a successful broadcast winter crop would be fabulous.
Think of it as fertiliser rather than being too good to kill.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

This is where we all really need to change our mindset.
The biomass that could be incorporated into the mix for soil food and then onto a successful broadcast winter crop would be fabulous.
Think of it as fertiliser rather than being too good to kill.

This is where we all really need to change our mindset.
The biomass that could be incorporated into the mix for soil food and then onto a successful broadcast winter crop would be fabulous.
Think of it as fertiliser rather than being too good to kill.

Maybe Legumes ,but Crops like Ryegrass and Rye can take Months to return any Stored Nitrogen and can have a negative effect the short term , grazing by animals would be a better option

 

[som farmer]

Red clover silage is rocket fuel.

Needs to be in a mix with other grasses thou and not just straight clover if for roundbales.

Make sure you put a lot of wrap on when wrapping ( do not skimp on the wrap per bale as it will backfire ) and also rat bait the stack very well, also put a net over the stack the minute the last bale is wrapped to stop the two legged birds!

back in the 70's when we first grew lucerne, we wrapped the first cut.

looked like a real feck up, bales became squidgy shapeless mess, black sludge leaking out.

heap fenced of, and subsequent cuts went in the pit, with the grass.

cows got into the bales one day, and went absolutely mad for it, it looked like black shite, animals are funny things sometimes.

after that, a layer in the grass silage pits, cows would always pull that out first, self feed then.

The wrapping of bales today, has moved a long way on, since the 70's, but both red clover and lucerne, grown for high protein feed, have a good future. The 'storage' of them has been sorted out, wrap it.

Wrapping, has also solved the problem of including it in a ration/TMR, just make enough bales, to last the winter, x number of bales, per day, times your av winter housing period.

 

[neilo]

This is where we all really need to change our mindset.
The biomass that could be incorporated into the mix for soil food and then onto a successful broadcast winter crop would be fabulous.
Think of it as fertiliser rather than being too good to kill.

It will be grazed again which will incorporate that biomass into the soil, the worms doing the mixing rather than diesel and steel. The crop will either kept for another year, or killed off and another crop sown into the residue next Spring.