Red clover silage

[Sid]

IF it is banned, it will purely be a political decision. There is no evidence that it causes cancer, from anywhere in the world, despite what @Sid might like to suggest to promote the organic mantra.

I'm not promoting anything, if there is a risk then we need to be aware of it

Can Roundup cause cancer? | Interdisciplinary Center for Exposures, Diseases, Genomics and Environment

February 2020 editor's note: DEOHS Professor Lianne Sheppard recently published a guest post on Forbes about her experiences following the publication of this widely read research study.

deohs.washington.edu

Weed killer: Glyphosate and cancer risk

There is scientific evidence that the use of weed killers containing glyphosate can have an adverse effect on health. Learn more here.

www.medicalnewstoday.com

People exposed to weedkiller chemical have cancer biomarkers in urine – study

Study measured glyphosate in urine and found high levels associated with signs of oxidative stress

www.theguardian.com

 

[Sid]

The living roots and the sheep muck being incorporated from above are feeding the soil fauna. If I do use glyphosate to kill off that ley, which I certainly will at some stage, it won't kill the clover plants, just the weed (Westerwolds being one) grasses. The clover will come back and feed with the next crop, unless it goes into cereals, where I will kill out the clover in the growing crop.

Not with a unhealthy does of glyphosate, trying to source the evidence that I had on file.....

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Where does this Nitrogen go then.

You haven't answered the question.

Can you be more specific,
If cover crops are grazed they can be left in the ground longer so roots go deeper lifting more Nitrogen , if animals they graze the crop the Nitrogen is then immediately available to the following crop , terminated crops you always have the risk of nirtogen lock up especially if they are over mature

 

[som farmer]

IF it is banned, it will purely be a political decision. There is no evidence that it causes cancer, from anywhere in the world, despite what @Sid might like to suggest to promote the organic mantra.

The living roots and the sheep muck being incorporated from above are feeding the soil fauna. If I do use glyphosate to kill off that ley, which I certainly will at some stage, it won't kill the clover plants, just the weed (Westerwolds being one) grasses. The clover will come back and feed with the next crop, unless it goes into cereals, where I will kill out the clover in the growing crop.

the loss of glyphosate will be a huge loss, came in, in the early 70's, first can we bought cost £72 for 1 gallon, and we thought it was 'magic'.

there will be plenty reading this, that have had glyphosate options, all their farming lives, and probably can't contemplate farming, without it.

If, we lose it, and its a political decision, and we revert back to the same scenario, pre r-up, unless a replacement is found, its going to be a big big shock.

Over the last 50 yrs, a whole new system of farming, based on r-up has evolved, the thought of not using it, shite.

soil micro biology, is being shown as vital to maintaining soil structure/health/resilience. It is said that each time you plough, you kill 50% of earthworms, plus a lot of the fungi etc.

The organic farmers, where they plough in green matter, or between crops, in rotation, must be causing damage to the soil microbiology. I cannot reconcile that being better for people/soil or the whole ethos of 'organic'.

The practice of keeping a living ground cover, with crops, for as long as possible, is shown to be extremely useful, in a dry period.

Having a dry farm, now we have stopped 90% of ploughing, and using ground cover, has completely altered the effects of 'drought', for the better. Didn't take long to show results either.

If you have a tendency to dry out in the summer months, copy what they do, where 'dry' is every year, they have done the hard work, and found out what succeeds.

 

[Sid]

the loss of glyphosate will be a huge loss, came in, in the early 70's, first can we bought cost £72 for 1 gallon, and we thought it was 'magic'.

there will be plenty reading this, that have had glyphosate options, all their farming lives, and probably can't contemplate farming, without it.

If, we lose it, and its a political decision, and we revert back to the same scenario, pre r-up, unless a replacement is found, its going to be a big big shock.

Over the last 50 yrs, a whole new system of farming, based on r-up has evolved, the thought of not using it, shite.

soil micro biology, is being shown as vital to maintaining soil structure/health/resilience. It is said that each time you plough, you kill 50% of earthworms, plus a lot of the fungi etc.

The organic farmers, where they plough in green matter, or between crops, in rotation, must be causing damage to the soil microbiology. I cannot reconcile that being better for people/soil or the whole ethos of 'organic'.

Herbicide Glyphosate: Toxicity and Microbial Degradation

Glyphosate is a non-specific organophosphate pesticide, which finds widespread application in shielding crops against the weeds. Its high solubility in hydrophilic solvents, especially water and high mobility allows the rapid leaching of the glyphosate ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Glyphosate isn’t soil fauna friendly.

Where is it said ploughing kills 50%, 50% of what?
And that depends on where you start from. If a perfect health soil is ploughed it may still have more life in it than a poor health,scalped,glyphosated, direct drilled one.
If you have 10 rabbits , you will end up with a far greater population than starting with 1!

 

[Sid]

Can you be more specific,
If cover crops are grazed they can be left in the ground longer so roots go deeper lifting more Nitrogen , if animals they graze the crop the Nitrogen is then immediately available to the following crop , terminated crops you always have the risk of nirtogen lock up especially if they are over mature

You said

if you take the livestock out of the system you lose more as your system uses up nirtogen in the process

It was you that needs to be more specific

 

[som farmer]

Herbicide Glyphosate: Toxicity and Microbial Degradation

Glyphosate is a non-specific organophosphate pesticide, which finds widespread application in shielding crops against the weeds. Its high solubility in hydrophilic solvents, especially water and high mobility allows the rapid leaching of the glyphosate ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Glyphosate isn’t soil fauna friendly.

Where is it said ploughing kills 50%, 50% of what?
And that depends on where you start from. If a perfect health soil is ploughed it may still have more life in it than a poor health,scalped,glyphosated, direct drilled one.
If you have 10 rabbits , you will end up with a far greater population than starting with 1!

 

[Sid]

You seem to do that alot, does that mean your beaten.

Now here is a passionate guy, growing amazing crops, building carbon and has an amazing soil that's just so friable and alive. His organic maize on the 2nd of July was as high as the majority of the conventional in the US

The Biological Farmer: A Complete Guide to the Sustainable & Profitable Biological System of Farming, Second Edition: Amazon.co.uk: Gary F. Zimmer: 9781601731340: Books

Buy The Biological Farmer: A Complete Guide to the Sustainable & Profitable Biological System of Farming, Second Edition 2 Rev Exp by Gary F. Zimmer (ISBN: 9781601731340) from Amazon's Book Store. Everyday low prices and free delivery on eligible orders.

www.amazon.co.uk

We all actually know that using machines isn't all bad, it all depends on where you start from and what you end up with.

 

[harperfarmer]

This was an analysis of a pure red clover stand that we had in for 3 years. As others have said, excellent as part of a ration but a bit pokey when fed straight. I'm now on GS4 leys that still have a lot of RC but wouldn't analyse quite as well as this did. Arguably a more versatile silage as can be fed through a ring feeder without going straight through them as quickly. Also taking £380/ha made them a more attractive option that continuing to grow pure RC. I'll have an analysis done on the GS4 silage later this summer as I didn't have one done last year.

 

[callwaster]

What kind of yields are people getting with RC silage per year. We have one small field away from the farm, currently doing nothing. It's near the contractor though so the though had crossed my mind of getting 2-3 cuts of bales from it. We are in the South of Ireland.

 

[Kevtherev]

Would anyone have the capacity to grass dry and make nuts out of red clover like they used to do?
Be an interesting experiment.

 

[harperfarmer]

What kind of yields are people getting with RC silage per year. We have one small field away from the farm, currently doing nothing. It's near the contractor though so the though had crossed my mind of getting 2-3 cuts of bales from it. We are in the South of Ireland.

The first year we put it in around May time as was too late for barley and had been very very dry. I ended up topping it in August just to clean the rubbish up then had a very light cut in September around 2/3 bales an acre. Thought it was a waste of time. The next year I had 2 large cuts of between 8-10 bales each time of very heavy bales and sold the 3rd cut to the local AD plant. It surprised me a lot. Just don't scalp it when you cut it and keep the P and K's to it.

 

[callwaster]

We're organic but I assume FYM would suffice for nutrients.

How long will three cut RC last for?

 

[Kevtherev]

Red clover will last a long time provided the crown is looked after
Don’t cut low and damage it and don’t graze hard in wet cold conditions.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Spray team here this morning from Hereford looking over a newly sown Red Clover Herbal ley for more spray trails , no shortage of weeds there to test them
A safe clover spray for herbs and Clovers would change things completely

 

[Sid]

Would anyone have the capacity to grass dry and make nuts out of red clover like they used to do?
Be an interesting experiment.

Local drier sold up, energy made it uneconomical

 

[Sid]

We're organic but I assume FYM would suffice for nutrients.

How long will three cut RC last for?

Be aware of too much compaction.

Well rotted fym it will love, we spread between cuts

 

[Derrick Hughes]

There is a chap in West Sussex Grows acres of Lucerne for pellets sold under contract , don't see why it can't work with Red Clover

 

[Sid]

There is a chap in West Sussex Grows acres of Lucerne for pellets sold under contract , don't see why it can't work with Red Clover

The nutrition content of Lucerne would make it more cost effective I expect.

Not sure if RC would be viable

 

[Derrick Hughes]

The nutrition content of Lucerne would make it more cost effective I expect.

Not sure if RC would be viable

I would not know
But I do know of quite a few useing heat from Digesterers to dry crops ,like Ryegrass, Timothy and Lucerne